Creating Magic in Storytelling and Finding Identity in Japan with Fantasy Author and Editor Ellen McGinty

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So welcome to this episode of
the Holly Hughes Podcast.

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Today, I am really excited.
I don't know when I'm not

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excited, but I have Ellen
McGinty here today who is an

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author and an editor.
She's a woman who lives in

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Tokyo, Japan, right?
You're in Tokyo or outside

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Tokyo?
Tokyo.

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Tokyo proper, and everyone knows
I'm obsessed with Korea, but she

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has lived in Japan for a very
long time and that culture has

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seeped into her.
It breathes in her and her

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creativity.
So welcome, Ellen, to my

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podcast.
I'm so glad you're here with us

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today.
Thank you so much, Holly, for

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that wonderful welcome.
And it's lovely to be here with

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you because we have a long
history too, so I'm quite

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excited.
We do, We do.

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First of all, I would like to
say like we met, it was back in

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the day when Brenda Drake,
because I really feel like she

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deserves credit for pitch wars.
But we were in a that was back

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in the day for people who don't
write young adult fiction at

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all.
It was a place where authors,

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not just YA, but all sorts could
go and pitch on Twitter.

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When it was Twitter and get an
agent, it was a contest.

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And you and I were like, in
pitch wars, Pit, Med pit, there

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was a pitch.
Slam pitch.

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Slam Yeah, all of the above.
And I remember like, admiring

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you because you were always kind
like you really.

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You really are a kind person,
which is what I also like about

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young adult authors in general
or people who typically write

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with or for children.
There is a kindness and a

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camaraderie within our world
that I don't know exists in

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other creative places because we
would watch people get their

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agents being similar to us.
So it was very fun to cheer them

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on.
But your journey to agenting was

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quite one.
Do you want to share some of

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that story this morning?
Absolutely.

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It was quite a journey.
I'm trying to figure out where

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to start with that.
Look how pretty.

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It's so pretty.
I'm holding the water, child,

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which is what you were pitching
when we first met.

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It was it.
Smells good.

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Your book smells so good.
I can tell you like my

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perspective watching what you
were dealing with if and then

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you can like jump in if you're
into that.

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OK, so I also want to make sure
everyone knows about all of her

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books.
When this comes out, more of her

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books will be out.
She is prolific.

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So she has the water child,
Saints and monsters, the last

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wave, the wayfinder right.
I said that right, And you will

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have you have stories in
anthologies and your voice is

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very distinct.
I think anyone can pick up one

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of them and be like, this is an
Ellen story.

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It is the way you write.
It is the words you choose and

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there's like a cleanness, but
you're so dropped into setting

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and the emotional arc of your
people.

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So that is, I thought, something
you should know from a reader of

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yours.
You.

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But I also remember this was
very much the beginning, like 10

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plus years ago in especially
young adult fiction where own

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voices started.
And I have no problem with own

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voices, except I had a problem
with what people, what agents in

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the publishing industry was
deciding who could tell a

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fictional story, or how they
could tell a.

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Fictional.
Story and for me you are a

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person who's lived in Japan for
how many years now it's.

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Been eight years now.
Yeah.

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So you live there, you love the
culture.

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It is part of you.
And this, the water child, has

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to do with the 2011 tsunami.
Yeah, and my in laws were there

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at the time, Yeah, and.
Everyone's like, but you're not

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Japanese.
And I was like, did you read it?

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Did you read it?
Like, can we get past the

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surface level and go deeper?
So I remember you having

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difficulty because who they
thought should tell the story,

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what they should look like was
not who wrote this story.

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Was that your experience?
That was definitely my

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experience.
And when I moved to Japan, it

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was 8 years ago, almost nine
years now, but my husband had

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been here his like his whole
life when, when he was a baby,

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you know, graduated high school
and he moved to America for

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college.
And so he, he had a long history

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in Japan.
And then, you know, his parents

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had been here for 35 plus years.
So as a family, you know, there

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was a big history there.
And when I was in Japan is when

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I got my agent and she was a
fabulous agent.

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She really believed in my story.
It was right at the beginning of

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Own Voices movement.
And so we pitched it all

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excited, and some really big
publishers picked it up, like

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several of the Big 5.
It went to acquisitions.

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And I started getting questions
like, how long have you been in

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Japan?
What does your family do in

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Japan?
And you're really more specific

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ones than that.
And I was answering them and

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kind of like, OK, I wonder, you
know, what's going on?

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They're just getting marketing
information.

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And then my agent came back and
she said, you know, I don't

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think we can sell this book.
She said we were told you could

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be Thai and write about Japan
and it would be OK, we could

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sell that.
But you just can't be white.

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And hearing that that was
something that was actually said

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was shocking to me because we're
creatives.

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We want to create, you know, no
creative want someone to say you

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can't do that because of your
skin, because of who you are as

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a person.
It could be something other than

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skin color, too.
But you don't want someone

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pointing at, like, who you are
and saying you're not qualified,

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like, who is qualified to make
art, right?

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Yeah.
At the same time, like we

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understand you want to care for
culture.

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Like, you want to be someone
who, you know, it shows respect

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and care.
And I had sensitivity readers

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and all of that.
But I just still remember that

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one comment from one of the
editors at one of the Big 5 and

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just thinking, wow, I really
can't write anything that

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traditional publishing will
accept right now because this is

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my world.
Like the world I live in is

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Japan, and the world's I write
are kind of.

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At that time, it was historical
fiction.

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But then I shifted to fantasy
because I thought, well, why

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don't I blend that?
E meets West, right?

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The experience I'm living right
now into a fantasy setting and

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see, you know where that goes.
But that took me years because I

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was so wounded by.
Yeah, just being told you can't

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create the art that you want to
create.

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I remember being really mad.
I have AI have an African

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American friend, right, and she
was writing a space opera and

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during the same time they said
that's not the kind of book we

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need from you.
And she's like, what do you

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mean?
I write sci-fi, I write space

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opera.
Like this is everything I want.

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And I think for me, instead of
feeling that there was inclusion

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or a different perspective on
that genre, they just wanted her

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to write something like, more
like the hate you give.

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And she's like, I don't want to
actually write that.

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I don't.
That's not like what I'm

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interested in sharing.
She had a huge.

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Agent and they had a breakup
because of it.

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So did you stay with your agent?
Did they give up?

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Like because you do a lot you
you do a lot with how you get

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your work out there.
So I'm curious.

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Though I ended up partying with
my agent, we we stayed for about

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two years after that when I
started writing fantasy and I

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was actually writing the last
Wayfinder, which is my book

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that's releasing right now and
that I've done a Kickstarter

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for.
And that book was so hard to

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write because it was my first
fantasy book.

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And I was trying to explore the
east meets West side of me, this

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kind of third culture, border
Walker, kind of like merging

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these two cultures.
And it was difficult and I was

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still battling with those
wounds.

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And so I didn't finish it.
And you know, two years is a

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long time for an agent to wait
on you.

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And so we decided, let's part
ways and I'm going to figure out

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this writing journey and make a
plan.

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I like that too.
I parted ways.

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I got an agent during all of
that as well.

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Our communication overall ended
up not being good.

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Like I, she got mad at me.
She's like, where's the next

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book?
I'm like, I sent you the draft

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like 6 months ago and she's
like, oh, it was in my spam and

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I was like, well that says a
lot, doesn't it?

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Like, you know what, like that?
That was an interesting learning

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process.
I know so many authors now who

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never stay with just one agent,
right?

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Like it's the journey to get
one.

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The like writing the thing, the
querying, all of the heartache

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and ups and downs, the synopsis.
Like you got an R and RI got a

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lot of R and Rs.
And then ultimately my what they

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always came back with is like, I
don't know how to sell it.

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So you are selling your own work
and I think pretty successfully,

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right, Don't I?
I think it's watching you

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online, doing all your programs
and your lives and how you

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communicate with your audience.
Like what made you start doing

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that?
What gave you the bravery?

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Because it's brave.
Thank you I, I, I appreciate

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that it's something I write into
my books, I think because I want

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to be brave.
I don't think anyone sets out

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thinking like I am brave.
And if they do, I've I applaud

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that person, but that's not me.
I'm like, I'm afraid and I'm

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choosing to step out.
And that's that's bravery is

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facing that fear, right?
Is making my heart stronger than

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that.
And So what happened was I

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finished that book and that fear
was still speaking in my mind.

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And I said, you know, I have to
try have to get my work out

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there.
That's what art is.

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There's this desperate need to
create, to tell these stories.

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That's why we are artists.
I don't know if you've seen the

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meme.
There's one of it's, it's like

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this is an artist who says they
love their work writers, right?

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Because it's, you know, their
passion.

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And then it shows like Kyle
Miyazaki and other people just

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in agony.
And this is this is the truth.

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So I had to get this story.
So I decided to query small

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presses because you can query
without an agent.

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And I felt like the traditional,
the big 5, when you say

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traditional, there are the small
presses, mid size and the big

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ones and they're all very
different, kind of campy.

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So you have to know which one
you're aiming for.

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And I felt that traditional
would still, meaning the big

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five would not accept my work
still because own voices was

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still fading out.
And so I decided, well, I'm

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going to go for the mid size
small without an agent.

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I did that.
I had about 100% request rate

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for the last wave Finder, which
should have told me something,

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but it wasn't romantic enough.
That book is Hawaii fantasy with

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a romantic subplot.
And the industry has changed a

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lot since I first started
querying.

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And it's a lot more fierce and
there's a lot more marketing

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that the editors are looking
for.

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They're they're very specific
in, you know, what they're

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hunting for in those flush
piles.

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And so I had only one yes.
Now I haven't been doing this

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long.
I maybe a few months, you know,

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and five full requests this
guest, the meeting right now.

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And.
It's pretty good and one yes.

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The yes was from a small
publisher that had just started

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and several friends recommended
it and they also shared some of

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my values.
And so I thought, this feels

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safe.
Let me go with that.

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And so I did and signed a
contract and actually signed for

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three books because it was a
series and that ended up being a

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big mistake.
And so this journey to, you

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know, how do I self publish like
you see me doing now, has taken

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very long because I took a
little detour with a small

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press.
Yeah, I had a small press reach

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out to me as well for my book
Dear to Drunk Girl, which had

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gotten so many R and Rs and my
agent made me really rewrite it.

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00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,440
And it's it was not the book.
I was like, how come no one's

228
00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:04,680
buying you?
Like if you were so for it?

229
00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:07,360
And then when I got my work back
and I read my book, I was like,

230
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:11,080
who wrote this?
Like, I worked so hard to please

231
00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:15,960
what they were looking for that
it stopped being the story of

232
00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:17,880
sisters trying to save each
other.

233
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,280
So I have the final.
I'm actually still editing it.

234
00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:26,200
But it's also hard because I
wrote it forever ago and I write

235
00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,920
differently now, right?
You know, hopefully my writings

236
00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:30,360
gotten better.
That's what I always hope.

237
00:13:30,680 --> 00:13:35,560
But there's still something in
that book that I haven't let go

238
00:13:35,560 --> 00:13:37,920
of.
So I keep saying I'm going to

239
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,120
finish it.
And my critique partner, my

240
00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,600
writing partner's like, Holly,
have you, have you done it?

241
00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,440
I was like, no, but I wrote 8000
words of a new book, you know,

242
00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,200
So I keep kind of going back and
forth.

243
00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:53,280
But I do believe in that story
and in the story that it

244
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:59,680
originally was, which was not
about a bad guy coming.

245
00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:05,600
And it wasn't about making the
my main character so unlikable

246
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,960
that that she was irredeemable.
Like, you know, when really

247
00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:10,800
horrible characters were like
popular.

248
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,960
So they made me make her so
horrible instead of the truth

249
00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,120
was she was in so much pain and
sad.

250
00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,760
There's like there's a fine line
right between that.

251
00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,120
So I think that's fascinating.
I would love to know more

252
00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,880
because I know your face is very
important to you, right?

253
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,880
It's part of your your work,
right where you are.

254
00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:37,200
So how does that come into play
in like living in Japan?

255
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:41,040
And how does it influence like
how you absorb their

256
00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,760
storytelling?
Because I watch like J dramas,

257
00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:45,000
right?
Like I watch some of them and

258
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:51,440
anime and stuff.
So there is a very distinct way

259
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,360
that Japanese share story,
right?

260
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,680
And the themes in their
storytelling.

261
00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:02,200
And I'm wondering how that
blends with your faith in like

262
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,520
what you believe and how you
experience being there.

263
00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,640
Yeah, So this is always
something I'm like, how much do

264
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,920
I share about this?
But I am a pastor's wife.

265
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,760
And so that surprises people.
And they're like, wait, you

266
00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:20,600
write, you know, young adult
romantic fantasy with Dragons

267
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:22,400
and dark curses and what is
this?

268
00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,360
Right.
And so it's really fun.

269
00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:30,040
And living in Japan, I think
people forget about culture.

270
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,360
They think that culture is just
this one big, like one big pot

271
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,640
and that's it.
Like all Japanese are the same.

272
00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,640
All Americans are this way.
And of course, we would say, oh,

273
00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:42,400
no, we don't think that way.
But we we do generalize, you

274
00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,000
know, in our heads often.
But Japan has a lot of different

275
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:47,040
pockets.
And there's a Christian

276
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,600
community in Japan as well.
And there are, you know,

277
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,920
historical Christians in Japan.
And I read a lot of their

278
00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,400
stories and not just
testimonies, but Japanese

279
00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:01,600
fiction writers who are
believers and philosophers, you

280
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:03,080
know, who are Japanese
Christians.

281
00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,280
And so there's this whole
culture subset, you know, of

282
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:11,880
processing Japanese culture in a
Christian way.

283
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:17,400
And so that is kind of how I
view Japan is through that that

284
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,360
lens.
And even in that community, it's

285
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,160
still divided.
I don't think there's community

286
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,240
that's not doesn't have
different interpretations of

287
00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:28,680
things.
For example, going to a shrine,

288
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,240
like there are some Japanese
Christians who will not set foot

289
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,800
in a shrine hole, so they'll
choose to stay back.

290
00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:39,960
There are others who will go in,
but they just won't pray, right.

291
00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:45,840
And so same thing with like at
the family altar, you know, some

292
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:50,200
people might pray to Jesus there
or some might just not, you

293
00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:51,680
know, stand in front of it at
all.

294
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,600
Might just like clean the sites
during like old blown or things.

295
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,480
So there's different ways
people, you know, practice, but

296
00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:02,920
The thing is that they can still
see beauty in the culture.

297
00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,560
Like they're not separate.
We tend to think of Christianity

298
00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:12,680
as like Western, but you know,
it started in in Israel and it's

299
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,240
it's grown.
And so each culture kind of use

300
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,640
it a little differently.
They have a little different

301
00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,800
print on it.
Yeah, I only know a little bit

302
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,680
of the history of Japan.
I realized like pre COVID or

303
00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:30,240
during COVID, like how little I
really knew about Asia in

304
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,520
general, right?
So that's when I started getting

305
00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,200
into Korean dramas, Chinese,
Japanese things.

306
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:41,080
And I was like, I didn't know so
much or my idea of what Japan

307
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,600
was was so small, right?
It was Miyazaki, of course.

308
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:49,280
I'm like a fan of all of that
and but there is so much to it.

309
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:53,600
And then when I I did a little
research into when Christianity

310
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,160
first got there and how hard
that was, right, You know, and

311
00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:02,760
going other places when I travel
and I I go to temples,

312
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,760
obviously, because it's such a
huge part of a culture like it.

313
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:09,480
That is, I'm so curious as to
what it feels like.

314
00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:14,400
And with my woo woo, like I was
at a temple.

315
00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:16,120
I'm forgetting the name starts
with AB.

316
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,160
In Japan or?
No, it's in Korea.

317
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:24,040
There I saw a monk in front and
he was praying and everyone was

318
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,000
being very respectful.
I was very grateful and like, it

319
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,640
might not be my faith, but I'm
not going to interfere in yours.

320
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,960
But as he was praying, I saw
ribbons of white.

321
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:37,160
Like I could feel the love in
his faith, like coming out of

322
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,080
him.
And for me, it was an amazing

323
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,200
moment.
And when I returned to that same

324
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:49,240
temple at my second visit, the
energy there is just so peaceful

325
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,160
and loving.
And we had been traveling for a

326
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,120
few days.
There were like six of us girls.

327
00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:56,520
And I was like, I need just a
few minutes, though alone.

328
00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,120
And they're like, and I just
went and like meditated like,

329
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,920
and to connect with all of that,
like love and kindness.

330
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,080
Because in the world there's so
little that like, I'm like, I

331
00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,000
will take it anywhere.
Like even back in the day in

332
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,400
college and when I was in like
Paris and I was at SAC Lacoo,

333
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,400
I'm bad at French.
People don't judge me.

334
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,480
But I went up there right before
it closed.

335
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:22,400
It was night and it's just lit
by candles just like it was back

336
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,680
in the day.
And it's not my faith, but

337
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:29,040
again, I could feel all the love
and belief of people there.

338
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,480
And so I just got really quiet
and my friend was praying and I

339
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,040
just like kept her company.
And I just, it felt like so

340
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:41,640
lovely to be able to experience
something like that.

341
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,440
So I think you should own the
pastor's wife thing.

342
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,200
Just just saying like, I think
it's a big part of who you are.

343
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:54,320
I do wonder how you interpret
some of like the metaphors then

344
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:59,960
and the like, mysticism, I guess
I would call it in Japanese

345
00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:04,960
culture or, and or like the
rules of men and women there.

346
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:06,400
I know that was a lot.
Sorry.

347
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:07,760
Yeah.
Where do I start?

348
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,240
Women in mysticism.
Right, like so like like in

349
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,520
story, we'll keep it to
storytelling, right, Like like I

350
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,520
know you talk about like anime
or stuff or like you talk about

351
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,640
like in the water child.
Right, you touch on the I I

352
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,320
don't want to say it wrong.
You say it the Mizuku.

353
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,400
Kuyo Yeah.
The music of Jesus.

354
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:27,720
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So like, you know, you talk

355
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,280
about how they process grief or
how they deal with things and

356
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,600
I'm just wondering how that
works for you.

357
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:38,400
Yeah, I think, I mean, it's such
a a big topic.

358
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:44,160
And with grief, I think in that,
in that particular story in the

359
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:48,640
water child, it's how they view
miscarried or aborted babies,

360
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,080
you know, babies who, you know,
don't see the light of day.

361
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,240
And depending on the historical
context, sometimes it's even for

362
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,480
young children.
Japan views it as a life, which

363
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,800
in America, a lot of people
would be outraged about that.

364
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,040
But in Japan, traditionally,
that is how they view it, that

365
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:08,800
it is, it is life and it is
sacred.

366
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:13,400
And so we honor it and we grieve
and we we process that by by

367
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,480
giving gifts, by praying, by
remembering.

368
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,840
And I think that is truly a
beautiful, beautiful thing.

369
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,560
And that said there, there's all
kinds of things around that

370
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,360
issue, but that's one of the
ways, you know, that they

371
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,160
process grief in that.
That's explored in that book.

372
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,760
And then with storytelling
there, there's just so much in

373
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,160
Japanese storytelling.
They do a four act structure

374
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:43,120
usually and it's all focused on
A twist at the end.

375
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,400
And anime and manga of course,
use that all the time.

376
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:53,200
And I, I can also pull out like
little threads of a faith in

377
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,200
those stories of how characters
are are processing their

378
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,280
beliefs, their hopes, their
dreams, you know, always wanting

379
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:05,520
to be stronger, always wanting
to believe the best in others or

380
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:07,760
to find the truth about
themselves.

381
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,280
Like these universal themes,
really.

382
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,600
Yeah, I love that.
So like, you know, I've had

383
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,120
three miscarriages.
So for me, when I like did a

384
00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:18,960
little dive into what that was,
I was like, that would be nice

385
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:23,040
because so many people around me
were like, well, you're fine

386
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,680
though, you know what I mean?
They're like, it was very

387
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:31,280
dismissive of the loss here.
Like that wasn't a baby yet or,

388
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,640
you know, better than something
else happening.

389
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,400
I'm like, what?
Then what?

390
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,400
Like, you know, it's a loss.
It's like like a grieving

391
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,560
process.
So I had, for me personally,

392
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:46,600
like challenges with finding
soft places to land in my grief,

393
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,360
which is why I think I write
about it a lot, right?

394
00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:52,200
Like the family dynamics and
whatnot.

395
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:57,320
You also write a lot about
family and I was wondering what

396
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,960
inspires those stories for you.
I think just family is so

397
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,520
special.
Like I love my family and I, I

398
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,320
think everyone, you know,
everyone has a family.

399
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,080
And our families might not be
perfect, but we all have family.

400
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,400
It's universal.
And I really love old like

401
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:19,200
classics like Les Mis or Little
Dorit, Bleak out, Lurie Heights,

402
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,880
those kind of language, shut up.
And they all revolve around

403
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,800
family.
There's this complicated mess

404
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,600
that comes with being in a
family because we're people and

405
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,960
humans do messy things and.
How does that start for the last

406
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,120
wayfinder?
Because that's about right, you

407
00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:37,920
know.
So what was the initial spark

408
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,960
for that one?
For that one, I, you know, live

409
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:43,280
in Japan.
And so I'm walking down the

410
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:47,560
street and I see all these
historical tiles depicting steam

411
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,720
ships and, you know, Japanese
women carrying parasols and

412
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,400
wearing Western gowns.
And I thought, wouldn't it be

413
00:23:55,400 --> 00:24:00,600
fun to write like a 1800s, late
1800s Meiji Restoration fantasy

414
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,520
novel in Japan that had some of
those deeper themes of Les

415
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,440
Miserables or something like
that.

416
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,240
So I started exploring ideas
with that.

417
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:14,560
And at the same time I was
reading a biography by it's a

418
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,360
botanist in Japan.
I can't remember his name right

419
00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:22,240
now, but in his his biography,
he has all these details that

420
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:27,560
are very factual about different
wars, diplomacy that happened,

421
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,120
incidents.
And there's one mention of sea

422
00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:35,480
Dragons in the Bay.
And it just, I remember

423
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,000
rereading that passage thinking,
are these boats?

424
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,960
Is it the, you know, they have a
dragon boat ceremony in Japan.

425
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,640
I was like, maybe that's what
he's talking about.

426
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,040
But he said it was the emperor's
boat pulled by sea Dragons.

427
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,600
And I thought, well, that would
be quite something to write

428
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,680
about.
And so that's where that that

429
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,320
spark came from.
I love that.

430
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,040
I would.
Now I'm trying to imagine what

431
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:57,240
they really did.
What do you think?

432
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,360
Really, it really was.
I think maybe it was the Dragon

433
00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:04,400
Boat race, but it it wasn't
written in that sense.

434
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,440
And he usually writes very
detailed about all of the

435
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,680
experiences he went through, so
it was interesting.

436
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:13,920
Do you think someone made him
write that?

437
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:16,600
No.
I'm like, I'm like, this is

438
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,760
fascinating it.
Was like a Loch Ness Monster

439
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,360
kind of thing.
I was like, maybe they like had

440
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,960
boats in front of it pulling his
boat and they dressed it.

441
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:30,040
Or did they make people swim?
I don't know.

442
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,640
Like, I, I love that.
I can see how your imagination

443
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,840
would go from there.
So how much longer are you going

444
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,960
to be living in Japan?
Like is this long term or will

445
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,720
you be there for your life?
I know you travel back and forth

446
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,800
to the States too.
This is one of those fun

447
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,840
questions you don't get if
you're not like an expat or a

448
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,280
hygiene.
So I don't know.

449
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,680
I you know, I don't know the
future, like how long I'll be

450
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,120
here.
But you know, my heart is here

451
00:25:56,120 --> 00:25:58,680
and I want to stay here as long
as I didn't want to say.

452
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,480
Guy Gene, I was really trying
not to use that word because I

453
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,480
don't know if it's nice.
Well, I mean, it's one of those

454
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,080
words.
It's not nice for someone else

455
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:11,000
to call you that word, but you
can call yourself that word and

456
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,840
you make up jokes with the word
and all of that.

457
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,760
So we even talked about like a
guy gene card or like we have a

458
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:19,920
little card we can play, you
know, that we're, oh, we're

459
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,160
foreigners.
We didn't know.

460
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:22,640
We don't.
We don't do that.

461
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,720
Sure, sure, sure.
So like how fluent are you now?

462
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,360
You must be so fluent and.
Actually not.

463
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,680
And this is one of my.
Yeah, it's really sad.

464
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:35,720
Shut up.
You know I have.

465
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,360
Can you go to the store and get
groceries or like like, yeah,

466
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:40,680
OK.
Yeah.

467
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:45,200
I would have fluent for you.
Blue Ant would be being able to

468
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,600
read I'm illiterate, which is
quite hard for an author.

469
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:55,520
You can't read it.
I can read the hiragana and the

470
00:26:55,520 --> 00:27:01,160
casagana and then some kanji,
but not enough to just have like

471
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,360
a nice reading experience.
I have to pull out my my

472
00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:06,600
translator and look up all the
kanji.

473
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,360
Do you use Papago?
Which one do you use?

474
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,720
I just use Google translator DL
yeah.

475
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:16,680
I shouldn't be real.
I think it's a very hard

476
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,280
language.
Like I tell all the people.

477
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,720
Like I have tried to learn
Korean for years.

478
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,080
I've taken a bunch of classes
but because I'm not around

479
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,160
anyone that I can practice with,
but I can read it like a 2 year

480
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,240
old.
Like you know I can sound out.

481
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,840
I mess up the botcham like I
know I am.

482
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:37,520
I can't always get the sound out
of my mouth correctly but like

483
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,560
when I get there I seem to know
enough to get through.

484
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,920
Do you know what I mean?
Like I fix and they have kiosks

485
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,200
everywhere and you can just tap
English.

486
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,600
Right, In Japan you can usually
tap English if you're in a big

487
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,720
city like Tokyo.
And for me, it's my husband's

488
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,160
fluent, so I'm always like, oh,
could you do this?

489
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:01,680
And so it's a bit of a crutch.
And then raising 3 kids as well

490
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,400
and writing lots of books has
kept me busy.

491
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,320
So I should be studying the
language more.

492
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,040
And I'm working on it.
I'm I study every day just a

493
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,520
little bit so.
Are your kids fluent?

494
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,760
I'm assuming yes, no.
Yeah, they're all fluent.

495
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:23,800
Wow, So what you are while we're
recording this, you are in the

496
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:28,480
process of doing a Kickstarter.
When this airs it will be a

497
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:34,160
smash success, but like I want
to know like where the idea to

498
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,520
do a Kickstarter and the energy
to do it, Like where does that

499
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,680
come from with you?
OK, so I had talked a little

500
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,560
earlier about my small press
experience.

501
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,440
And so with that I had gotten my
rights back from that small

502
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,280
press, which was not an easy
feat at all.

503
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,520
And I would say that was more
difficult than everything with

504
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,080
the own voices experience and
querying.

505
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,960
So once I had my rights back, I
had to decide, you know, I now

506
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,120
have control of my publishing.
What am I going to do with these

507
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:05,600
stories?
How am I going to get them out

508
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,160
to readers?
And the first book, Saints and

509
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,760
Monsters, I had to release
quickly to keep all of my

510
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,640
reviews.
And so I did that with a

511
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,800
whirlwind and then thought about
it.

512
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,200
And a lot of my friends have
been doing Kickstarter to fund

513
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,040
their indie books.
It's kind of a way to cover all

514
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,880
of the basic costs for the
production and then maybe have a

515
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,680
little extra to work as kind of
an advance for yourself or to

516
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,240
work on Nextbooks.
And so I thought, well, I'm

517
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,280
trying new things, so let's
let's go for it.

518
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,880
And did a lot of research,
launched the Kickstarter.

519
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:45,120
And I remember the day before I
had one of the Kickstarter

520
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,600
authors message me and said, I
hope you know your Kickstarter

521
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,240
is going to do really well and
you should prepare yourself.

522
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,920
And I thought, what, like, I
hadn't prepared for a success,

523
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,640
but I should.
I should, you know, believe in

524
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,880
myself and do that.
And so I did.

525
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,000
And the day that it launched, it
just funded within 16 minutes.

526
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,560
And it's been going steadily up
since.

527
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:14,520
And yeah, so I'm confident it's
just going to be a great way to

528
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,840
push out these indie books.
I have like I should have been

529
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,640
prepared for success.
That's like the quote of the

530
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:23,680
day.
Why would he?

531
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,560
I love that you did.
You posted that you put that you

532
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,520
fully funded in 16 minutes.
Like do you think it's because

533
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,240
you set a reasonable goal?
Do you think you should go for a

534
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,480
bigger one next time?
Like I'm so curious and like,

535
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,640
where do you start?
Like, how do you even start the

536
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,680
whole like, oh, this is the work
that goes into Kickstarter

537
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,680
because I don't know what is
that like?

538
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,440
So Kickstarter for publishing is
different from Kickstarter for

539
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,760
other projects.
But for publishing, they say do

540
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,320
your research, read books on,
you know, Kickstarter for

541
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,680
authors, join Facebook groups,
There's two or three of them

542
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:02,160
that are fabulous.
And then get a good cover, get

543
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,960
the good artwork.
Like you have to invest in your

544
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:06,880
art for your art to be
successful.

545
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:08,880
And I know artists don't like
hearing that.

546
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,640
A lot of times you just want to
make it and it's going to thrive

547
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,920
without any of the marketing.
But you do have to dress it up

548
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:17,880
usually.
I mean, there's always

549
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,160
exceptions, but having that,
that visual element on the

550
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,280
Kickstarter really helps.
And so I made sure to just check

551
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,800
all of those boxes and and it
worked.

552
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,640
Yeah, the the the illustration,
I want to say anime, the

553
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:38,000
illustration is quite beautiful
and very captivating and it

554
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,000
grabs your attention.
I feel like you have an eye for

555
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,160
that because even for the water
child, right when that book came

556
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:49,200
out, I won one of your giveaways
and it was really like, I don't

557
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,600
even think you knew that you
pulled me into this day.

558
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,760
I have my stickers of cherry
blossoms.

559
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:55,160
This is one of my favorite
things.

560
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,640
I have these cherry blossoms and
I put it on the luggage and I

561
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,040
stuck them to the outside of my
bag that I do big trips with.

562
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,600
And the first time I had covered
my little piece of luggage.

563
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,440
It's not a very American size.
It's like a 26 inch bag, which

564
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,320
you know for Americans is small
anyway.

565
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,680
So right it is though.
Do you know what I'm saying is

566
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,520
usually they have the 28 plus
whatever.

567
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,040
It's like I had this one bag and
I went to Korea, but before I

568
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:24,160
did that, I think I went to
Colorado and some of the cherry

569
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,120
blossoms fell off and they got
on.

570
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:28,480
No, no, but this is the best
part.

571
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:33,320
So as the bag was coming down
the baggage carousel, there was

572
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:38,520
a little boy like he maybe 4
tops fives adorable little boy.

573
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,800
He goes daddy, daddy, my bag has
flowers on it now.

574
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:50,360
So like for me, your story like
went other places that like it.

575
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,400
It just kept going.
And I just really loved the

576
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,440
thought that your work, your
words and something that you

577
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,440
created was reaching people you
would never know.

578
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,600
I think that's like the magic of
storytelling.

579
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,480
So I just, I always wanted to
tell you that.

580
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,400
I just never did before.
So I love that story.

581
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:09,520
That is so.
Sweet.

582
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:14,920
You've talked about how
storytelling is healing, so are

583
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,640
there things that you've read or
that have helped heal you?

584
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,800
I have.
Books that I've read that have

585
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,880
helped heal me, I would
definitely say the Bible, which

586
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:30,040
I know is very cliche for
Christians to say, but that's

587
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,280
it's very important one for me
and my faith and those

588
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,440
scriptures have carried me
through a lot of things.

589
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,400
And so that's definitely one of
them.

590
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,600
And then another would be
probably books by Mikoto

591
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,200
Fujimura.
So he writes Silence and Beauty.

592
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,200
It's a book about the book
Silence by Endo and then also

593
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,320
his experience in 911.
And it's about art as well,

594
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,760
because he's a painter and it,
it's kind of how we heal through

595
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,280
grief.
And it's highly recommended.

596
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,240
And another book I really
enjoyed was Walking on Water by

597
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,199
the Engel, the Engel excellent
book.

598
00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:13,600
And that was her creative
journey about what does it mean

599
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:18,040
to be a Christian artist and
kind of, you know, looking at

600
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,120
how she's traveled with her
faith over the years and her

601
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,920
stories.
And so I think those three are

602
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:29,840
my my favorite, like healing
books and there's a few

603
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,679
psychology ones too that I would
go to because I love reading

604
00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:35,960
books on trauma.
Do you?

605
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,719
Yeah, like the body keeps the
score and things like that.

606
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,480
So, you know, the the
traditional ones.

607
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:47,080
I love romance.
Search for Meaning by Frankel.

608
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,080
Yeah.
What's 1 of the biggest losses

609
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,280
that you've like endured that
shaped you?

610
00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:57,800
I would say the biggest one was
probably a church trauma loss

611
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:02,720
that I had, and that was when we
were in Japan early on, we were

612
00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:07,560
with a different church and we
experienced narcissism in the

613
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:12,640
church and how harmful that is.
And that was very damaging

614
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,440
because you feel like your faith
and the place and community

615
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,800
where you exercise that faith
should be safe.

616
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,920
And we discovered that the
people, not all the people were

617
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,760
safe, right?
And I think that's an important

618
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:32,320
realization to to know and, you
know, you can hold on to your

619
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:36,720
faith, but you have to, you
know, push out what's unsafe

620
00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:39,640
and, and really look at it for
yourself.

621
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:44,000
And, and for me, that was going
through, you know, the Bible and

622
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,200
reading it for myself without
the context of what that

623
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,880
particular church and the
individuals who have been

624
00:35:50,720 --> 00:35:56,200
hurtful and just, you know,
making my faith really my own

625
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,880
and holding on to it and getting
out the things that didn't

626
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,640
belong there.
And so I think that's something

627
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,640
really important for church
community to talk about,

628
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,440
especially because you want a
healthy church, a healthy

629
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:12,240
community, very important.
And so I read a lot of those

630
00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:16,560
books around that time and then
that kind of prepared me for

631
00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:21,440
later with my book rights.
That was another trying time

632
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,480
because it was another safe
place, and I think that's where

633
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,720
trauma gets us, is what's
supposed to be safe and then we

634
00:36:27,720 --> 00:36:31,960
find that it isn't is usually
one of one of those triggers.

635
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,160
That is what I'm actually
writing about now in like

636
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,840
memoir.
I talked earlier in my podcast

637
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:40,800
with an author.
Her name is Judy Goldman.

638
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,000
She's 83 now, I believe, and
she's a memoirist.

639
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:45,920
And she just came out with the
latest book.

640
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:50,840
And I've been holding off on
sharing some of my stories

641
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,360
because I didn't know how to
like package it.

642
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,200
I didn't know what the spine of
the story was.

643
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,480
I didn't, I didn't want to just
be like daddy issues.

644
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:01,000
Like that was my joke.
I was like, oh, it's just going

645
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:05,160
to be called daddy issues.
But I didn't actually do that

646
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,160
because I, I knew I was being
sarcastic and deflecting, right?

647
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,520
So I was like waiting and then
speaking with her and her

648
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:17,480
beautiful southern accent, she
said, Holly, it sounds like you

649
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,400
need to write about home.
And then it that was the zinger

650
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,320
for me that she could hear
during our conversation, like

651
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,080
what I was struggling with and
then was generous enough to

652
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,360
literally gave me the spine.
That's the book that I have like

653
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,240
8000 words on in a few weeks
now.

654
00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:35,960
Just that it just it was like,
Oh my God, I have my spine.

655
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,120
I wrote all the chapter outline.
Like I just knew every story

656
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,560
that and how it I don't know how
it'll all go together.

657
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,280
I don't write linearly.
I know that's so surprising.

658
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:49,560
But like for me, it is about the
word safety.

659
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,280
I want home to be safe.
And what does that mean?

660
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:57,880
And what hasn't it meant, and
why wasn't it, despite how

661
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:02,160
pretty it might be?
And what is safe, like we don't

662
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,640
necessarily want to live for
safe and that we're afraid of

663
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:07,600
the things that are unsafe,
right?

664
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,360
Correct.
And so how do we find that that

665
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:15,560
safety and, and make that safety
for other people as well, like

666
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,800
going to kind of being the, the
thermostat instead of a

667
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,920
thermometer?
Like how do you set a room to be

668
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,280
a place that is, is safe?
How do you bring that to

669
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,400
wherever you're at, like your
family, your church, your, your

670
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:34,240
books, you know, how, how do you
bring that safety into a place?

671
00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:36,760
That's something that I think
about a lot, too.

672
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:41,400
I love that.
And I, I think it's, I think in

673
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:45,640
the world today, there's a lot
of people who are reactionary

674
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,200
and that they just think because
they feel something in a moment

675
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:53,000
or they tap into outrage or a
heightened emotional state.

676
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:58,720
No one's giving anyone tools to
be like, to have when you're

677
00:38:58,720 --> 00:39:01,920
being emotional because I always
tell everyone I'm super Moody.

678
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,800
I'm super Moody and things
probably hurt me way more than

679
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:10,840
people have any idea because I
won't show it to people I don't

680
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:15,160
trust who aren't in my super
inner circle because I feel like

681
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,120
friendships are things that are
interesting for me, right?

682
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,800
Friends, friendships don't last
forever.

683
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:24,400
I tend to welcome narcissists
into my life, right, because

684
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,280
there's something interesting
and exciting because they do

685
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,640
that thing that narcissists do,
right?

686
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,480
I'm wondering if that was like
part of what happened in right

687
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,520
your church in that like you had
this drawing in.

688
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,880
Yes, we're like minded.
Yes, we have the same value,

689
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:44,400
only to discover you don't.
And it's also you, you can

690
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:49,880
actually have the same value and
still have that abuse or, you

691
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,440
know, an unsafe person in that
community.

692
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,000
And the the hard thing is when
that's in a position of

693
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,160
leadership or a position of
power, whether we're talking the

694
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,680
church or the home or somewhere
else.

695
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,360
When it's someone who has
authority over others that can

696
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:09,080
set that room for other people,
you know it can make everything

697
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,480
unsafe.
So how do you weave hope into

698
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:14,960
your stories?
Like is that conscious or

699
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,200
unconscious?
Very conscious hope is like a

700
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,360
rebellion.
Hope is, you know, it is just

701
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,960
this thing that defies what is.
You know, you hope because you

702
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,720
don't have that yet.
You hope because there's

703
00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:31,880
something that's broken and you
want it to be whole.

704
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,120
And I think we're all reaching
for that.

705
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:37,960
And I think we all have wounds.
And I like to think of in Japan,

706
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,320
we have, you know, the broken
pottery that's minted with gold.

707
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,680
And so I have some friends who
are actually artists that do

708
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,160
that.
And it's beautiful.

709
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,600
It's so beautiful.
And it takes so much time and

710
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:55,080
the pigments and seeing how you
can take that brokenness and put

711
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,280
it into something beautiful.
It's hope that does that.

712
00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:59,520
If you didn't have hope, you
wouldn't even try.

713
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,720
Like why would you put gold into
something that might just break

714
00:41:02,720 --> 00:41:04,520
again?
Like that would be a waste.

715
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:09,600
You have to hope that it's going
to fit together, that it's going

716
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:15,120
to be beautiful again.
And so I I think it's something

717
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:19,440
we all want.
I, you and I see that word so

718
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:21,080
different.
I'm like fascinated by this

719
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,200
right now.
I, it's Katsuki.

720
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,520
Is that how you say it?
I always say it, yeah, I love

721
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,080
that.
It's like one of my tenants, I

722
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:30,640
was like, Oh my God, they broke
gold.

723
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,920
I don't.
I think for me in some of my

724
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:40,000
life is that I call it a goal
instead of hope because

725
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:46,400
sometimes when I've hoped, I
felt so out of control and I

726
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:51,520
felt not victimized.
But a bit if I'm looking back,

727
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:55,960
especially on my younger self,
like like if I have hope and no

728
00:41:55,960 --> 00:42:00,200
one comes, if I have hope and no
one hears me, right?

729
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,600
And even though I can have
faith, my faith is not like

730
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,160
yours, right?
So what did hope do?

731
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,520
I don't know.
So like there's that part of me

732
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:13,960
that is just, I call it
certainty instead or like my

733
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,240
belief because something about
hope can linger.

734
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,960
And I think sometimes people
hang on to hope without

735
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:27,080
evaluating like a role or a
responsibility or how to make it

736
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,880
better, even though you can't
ultimately control everything.

737
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,760
I think my brain, which is funny
because I write magical realism,

738
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,640
right?
But then my brain goes, my brain

739
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:41,800
goes there.
So I love how peaceful your idea

740
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:45,560
of hope is.
It's peaceful in a sense and in

741
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,320
another sense not because it
again, it's kind of like a

742
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,880
rebellion.
It's like you're hoping, but

743
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:54,800
like you said, you don't know,
you know, if it is going to hold

744
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,560
up, but you're choosing to.
You're like, yes, it will.

745
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:02,000
I'm investing my time.
I'm doing this because I have

746
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:03,600
faith in that.
And it's a scary thing.

747
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,200
If you're unsure, it's very
frightening.

748
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,880
But you're right, as a person
of, you know, Christian faith,

749
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:11,520
you know, my hope is ultimately
in Jesus.

750
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,640
And so I feel confident in that.
But when we're talking about

751
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:19,240
like goals, for example, like
this Kickstarter, I would use

752
00:43:19,240 --> 00:43:25,000
the term goal for that one
because I hope would be like

753
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:28,760
what that person told me before,
the day before of you, your

754
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:30,680
campaign's going to do well.
You need to believe in yourself.

755
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,320
They were daring me to hope I.
Think they were giving you like

756
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,920
a message like right?
Like a message from like God or

757
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:39,720
an Angel.
Hey, we see you.

758
00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:42,320
We you got this.
Right.

759
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,320
Yeah.
Before it was just the goal to

760
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,520
me.
And it's like if it failed, that

761
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:50,160
would be disappointing.
But I wasn't like, you know,

762
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:55,400
this is it has to happen.
And so it's interesting how

763
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:58,760
those words all have different
meanings to different people.

764
00:43:58,760 --> 00:43:59,440
And.
Yeah.

765
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:04,360
OK, so Kickstarter successful
your your book is like how are

766
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,040
you distributing?
How does it work being in Japan?

767
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,680
I mean the world is flat.
We can go any which way.

768
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:11,880
So who are you trusting with
that part?

769
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:16,080
Because some of the bigger
companies online, we'll just say

770
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:17,720
that, right?
There's issues like they've

771
00:44:17,720 --> 00:44:20,840
taken my book down twice,
telling me it's copied.

772
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:25,520
And then I have to like, yeah,
they took all my work down, all

773
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:29,640
my work down.
Like another author who wrote

774
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:36,640
like a fiction book but used my
title and my font got me kicked

775
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:41,400
off of Amazon.
And then it took me like a month

776
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,560
to get back on.
But then I, I am very detail

777
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,000
oriented this way and I have all
of the proof.

778
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:51,280
And then at the beginning of the
summer, they did it again saying

779
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:55,080
your, your book is a fraud.
It's a copy of someone else's

780
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:57,080
work.
I was like, well, back in, you

781
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,760
know, 2022, you did the same
thing.

782
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:01,720
And here's the outcome.
And here's the case number.

783
00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:06,240
So could you please stop?
Yeah, I, I think certain

784
00:45:06,240 --> 00:45:09,600
companies take issues very
seriously and abruptly.

785
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:14,080
And so it's definitely something
to watch out for as authors like

786
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,200
the copyright issue with AI that
just happened.

787
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,200
For instance, a lot of authors
found out they did not have

788
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,600
their books copyrighted even
though their books are with Big

789
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:26,120
5 publishers.
And so they weren't then in the

790
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:30,760
the lawsuit to get the money
from the AI corporations after

791
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:32,600
all of that, which was a big
deal.

792
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:37,200
But for Kickstarter, you can
drop ship your books from a

793
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,560
printer and there's several
printers that do that.

794
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:41,960
Yes.
So to do that, you also have to

795
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,720
think about people want a
limited edition book, so they

796
00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:47,920
usually want it signed.
And so for my books, that meant

797
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:52,160
a digital signature because I
can't order them to Japan, sign

798
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,720
all the books and then mail
them, you know, wherever they're

799
00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:57,760
going in the world.
And so I had to make a digital

800
00:45:57,760 --> 00:45:59,640
signature page for each of the
books.

801
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,560
So and the other fun thing is
that the shipping with the

802
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:07,040
tariffs, that's going to change.
Oh yes.

803
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:11,680
So the day, a few days before
the Kickstarter launch, I was

804
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,080
checking the Japan Post, you
know, because I was going to

805
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:18,120
send some signed copies with,
you know, special swag.

806
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:23,520
And the hand post had a message
and bold read and it said, you

807
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:27,880
know, for US mail, we are no
longer receiving like you have

808
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:32,480
to make sure it's a gift under
$100 and it can't be any kind of

809
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:37,480
merchandise.
And I know the Japan Post, they

810
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,120
ask you a million questions when
you go in, especially if you're

811
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:43,960
at a smaller post office.
And so it wouldn't be, it

812
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,160
wouldn't I wouldn't be able to
mail, you know, a book from

813
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:48,280
Kickstarter because that is
merchandise.

814
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:53,240
And so legally people have been
saying, you know, print

815
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,880
shouldn't, you know, be included
in that minimum that was, you

816
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:01,920
know, gotten rid of, but they
threw everything in it.

817
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,200
So a lot of the Kickstarter's
are kind of the window.

818
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,440
That's crazy.
I know some other authors who

819
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:12,760
even being traditionally
published are running into, they

820
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:16,920
keep saying the cost of paper.
So because of the tariffs, the

821
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:20,080
cost of paper has gone up.
So the cost of books has gone

822
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,560
up.
The cost has definitely gone up.

823
00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:25,320
Yeah.
So when you're running a

824
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,960
Kickstarter, it's, it's tricky
because already just on, you

825
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:34,080
know, Amazon or whatever retail
platform your book is on, trying

826
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:38,400
to keep it low, the price for a
reader, because we don't want to

827
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:42,080
spend $20 on a book.
Usually we're pinching pennies.

828
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:47,640
But the cost of paper is so high
and shipping has gone up.

829
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:49,360
So authors, they're having a
price.

830
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:53,320
Their books, you know, hardbacks
now are $2530 and that's

831
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:57,400
standard because the cost is so
high just to produce it.

832
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,120
It's, and it's like
heartbreaking because for us

833
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:05,000
authors, like we work without
getting paid, right?

834
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,280
You're creating, you're writing
the story, you're doing the

835
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,000
drafts.
Like, how many drafts do you do

836
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:12,720
in a book Average now?
Now that you've been proficient

837
00:48:12,720 --> 00:48:15,760
and prolific, how how many
drafts does it usually take

838
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:19,320
before you're satisfied?
I do what they tell you not to

839
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:23,720
do, which is to revise as you
are going and so I will draft

840
00:48:23,720 --> 00:48:27,040
and then go back and edit it.
So how many drafts?

841
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:30,200
And you are an editor, I should
say you're an actual editor, so

842
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:31,200
maybe a little.
Different.

843
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:33,560
Yeah.
So I have to turn off the

844
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,280
editing hat when I'm writing,
but then the next day when I

845
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:41,840
open my manuscript, I go back a
few chapters and reread and edit

846
00:48:42,240 --> 00:48:44,240
a few chapters.
Yes.

847
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:49,000
It's a very bad habit and so it
takes me a long time to finish a

848
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:53,560
proper draft and then once
that's done, I go back and read

849
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:57,040
through it.
I used to say like 3 times for

850
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,920
different edits and then send it
off to professional editors.

851
00:48:59,960 --> 00:49:02,600
Because even editors and
editors, you need other people's

852
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:06,040
perspective on your work.
And then there's the proof copy.

853
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:07,560
So how many times I read my
book?

854
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:12,880
I don't think I've counted.
Wow, so then you write linearly.

855
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:18,920
It depends on the novel.
So I usually do a linear

856
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:22,720
progression, but sometimes if
I'm really stuck, you know,

857
00:49:22,720 --> 00:49:27,080
writer's block, I will skip a
scene and write something in the

858
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:31,000
middle of the end.
Is that when you go for a walk

859
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,560
like I I saw that you had like
answered interviews like so

860
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:37,400
share with other people now like
what do you do when you get

861
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,960
stuck on something?
I usually go out in nature

862
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:44,280
because that is the best place
for inspiration and, and this

863
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:46,400
activity, you know, to get your
body moving.

864
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:50,600
And so I'll go on a nature walk
or I'll go out, you know,

865
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:52,920
downtown to some cute cafe or
something.

866
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:56,520
Tokyo has all of these little,
little cafes hidden in little

867
00:49:56,520 --> 00:50:00,040
shops and you're always seeing
something interesting.

868
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,480
And so that's what I usually do
in my favorite places.

869
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:07,320
There's a big bamboo forest.
And how can you not be inspired,

870
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:09,320
you know, in a giant bamboo
forest?

871
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:11,040
That's one of my dreams to go
to.

872
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:15,320
I have not been in one yet.
I've been in like pockets of

873
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:17,240
bamboo, but that's not like a
forest.

874
00:50:17,240 --> 00:50:21,320
And there's also, it was on a
Japanese show.

875
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:25,000
It was what was it was like?
I think it was married at first

876
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:28,000
sight in Japan.
Did you ever see this?

877
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:32,440
No, I pretty much only watch
anime and the very rare Japanese

878
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,280
movie.
There is it's, it's like it's a

879
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:39,240
force and it's well as well
known as the Nara deer, right?

880
00:50:39,240 --> 00:50:42,480
So, but, but I don't know the
name of the forest.

881
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:45,040
So maybe you can help me because
I can't find it anymore.

882
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:48,560
The name it's like it's
dissolved in my brain, but it

883
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:51,320
looks like mangroves.
It's almost like it's like these

884
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,440
islands of trees, but not just
roots.

885
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:56,760
They're like these little
islands with paths in between,

886
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:59,200
but water.
But it's not a swamp.

887
00:50:59,720 --> 00:51:04,640
And they did an episode there
and I this tea house that they

888
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,960
found was, you know, very old
home.

889
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:13,760
And it was just so I was like,
Oh my God, I've never seen a

890
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:16,080
place in the world that looked
like that.

891
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:17,920
And I was like, if I went there,
I can't imagine what my

892
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:20,520
imagination would do.
And I always think of you.

893
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:21,960
And I was like, did has she been
there?

894
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:25,760
Do you want to be?
Curious now, I it sounds like

895
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:30,840
something on Shikoku, like that
island, but Nada Nada does have

896
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:35,200
lots of old trees and forests
and I think I've seen some

897
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:37,760
brochures about something like
that that you have to take like

898
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,560
a bus to or something.
I'm going to have to go find

899
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:42,640
that.
I've been to nada, but you know,

900
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:45,680
the traditional, the type
feeding the deer, the little SIM

901
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:47,320
bankrupt.
Like I'm nodding for anyone who

902
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:49,320
doesn't know, because the deers
nod because they're like giving

903
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:50,960
me food.
Give me my food.

904
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:52,720
And they're vicious.
They're vicious.

905
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:55,400
They're vicious.
Have you been there?

906
00:51:56,720 --> 00:51:58,680
No, Japan is on my list of
places ago.

907
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:01,960
I think the next time when I
went to Korea last time there

908
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:06,960
used to be a Beetle, which is a
high speed ferry between Busan

909
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:10,120
and again.
I can't speak up Fuka.

910
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:16,560
Something I don't see, people
are gonna judge me, Fuka.

911
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:19,520
Fuka, yes.
I love him.

912
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:23,400
So I and it was like I was
trying to get me and my friends

913
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:25,520
to do and they're like, I was
like, I'm not going across the

914
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:29,000
world if I can't go to Japan
this time, like if I'm going to

915
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:34,720
be there, I want to go.
And they shut down the beetle.

916
00:52:35,240 --> 00:52:36,880
They shut it down.
Like I don't think there was

917
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:39,400
enough people doing it, but it
was like a whole experience

918
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:42,840
where, you know, they had the
rooms that you could be in with

919
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:46,040
the heated floor and get quiet
or you could go here and do this

920
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:49,000
activity and that activity and
it was like 4 hours.

921
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:51,160
So it was super high speed.
Oops.

922
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:53,680
I hit my mic super high speed
and I really wanted to do it,

923
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,840
but they didn't have it anymore.
And then the regular ferry was

924
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:59,760
like 3 times as long and it
didn't arrive until midnight,

925
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:02,040
like past midnight.
And I didn't really want to show

926
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:05,840
up in a city that I didn't know
at all like that.

927
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:11,840
And I was like oh so it is on my
places I really must go and see

928
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:14,720
list so.
Maria's on one of mine too.

929
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:18,520
I'll.
Definitely go back, it's right

930
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:19,160
there.
I can hook.

931
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:19,520
You up?
It's my.

932
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:22,680
Friends, I have friends.
I could tell you what to do.

933
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:24,360
Oh my gosh, with your family
too.

934
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:25,560
The whole shebang.
It's.

935
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:29,120
They all want to go.
I feel so at home there.

936
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:32,400
I tell everyone this.
I don't, I don't know why.

937
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,960
I I because you know, I'm not
downplaying how bad I am at

938
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:37,280
speaking in Korean.
I'm awful.

939
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:43,640
But there is something about
like the culture and the cities,

940
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:47,200
and I don't know if it's because
it's a monoculture and I know

941
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:48,760
that comes with pluses and
minuses.

942
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:52,360
I'm not ignorant.
But there there's like standards

943
00:53:52,360 --> 00:54:00,640
of politeness, of cleanliness of
I don't, I just like everything,

944
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:03,080
the food, the culture.
Everyone's like you like that.

945
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:08,400
I'm like, I love it.
I just feel at home like in in

946
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,720
my bones I am just like oh I'm
where I'm supposed to be.

947
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,920
Which makes no sense for a girl
who like grew up on Long Island

948
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:18,880
each and an American to like be
that at home.

949
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:22,000
I'm assuming you must feel that
at home in Japan cuz it is your

950
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,320
home.
Definitely feel that way in

951
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:27,920
Japan and it's hard to
communicate that as a foreigner

952
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:32,160
living here, you know, long term
resident because I am American,

953
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:36,080
you know, I grew up in America,
but my family was Army, so we

954
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:39,360
moved around all the time.
And then when I came to Japan,

955
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:42,120
it just was that feeling.
And I had been here several

956
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:46,040
times before we moved here and I
had felt it then like I had felt

957
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:50,960
it the first time I visited
Japan was this I feel a sense of

958
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:55,640
belonging in this place and in
this culture and I wanted to

959
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:58,120
learn more about it.
And then now that I've lived

960
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:01,600
here, I still feel that, but
it's, it's a bit of a, a,

961
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:06,760
there's a tear because I feel at
home, but I'm also other, right?

962
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:11,200
I'm always reminded that I'm
different every day because I

963
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:13,640
don't live in like a western
bubble here.

964
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:15,840
It's very much a Japanese
community.

965
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:19,400
There's some parts of Tokyo that
are very western tourist

966
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,400
friendly, but I do not live in
one of those.

967
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:26,360
And so I really in the culture
and, and with, you know, people,

968
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:29,760
but at the same time there,
there is a foreign community.

969
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:33,040
There are these little sub
pockets, but they're they're not

970
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:35,680
what you would think.
Like we have, you know,

971
00:55:35,720 --> 00:55:39,200
immigrants from all over Asia,
from the Middle East, you know,

972
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:43,160
different places and everyone's
trying to figure out, you know,

973
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:48,640
where do I, where do I belong,
like within this culture and how

974
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:50,360
do I fit in?
We all want to.

975
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:53,360
So it's interesting talking with
other people who are kind of

976
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:57,320
third culture who live here,
because I think a lot of people

977
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:00,480
have that experience.
Yeah, I I love, I love that

978
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:03,240
theme of like belonging or not
belonging and how that

979
00:56:03,240 --> 00:56:05,360
connection happens or doesn't,
right.

980
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:12,280
Like I had amazing interactions
with people in Korea, mostly

981
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:14,880
older, who are just like, oh,
you're trying so hard.

982
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:19,680
Like you're trying so hard.
Or because I am ajma age, which

983
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:23,360
is in theory middle-aged woman,
a level of respect.

984
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:27,120
I know if I spent more time
there, I would still always be

985
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:30,120
other.
And a lot of people, I think,

986
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:33,680
label themselves with all their
100 million labels of their

987
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,600
identity, which most of the time
I just don't care.

988
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:40,800
I'm like, I'm looking at who you
are as you show up in front of

989
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:42,920
me and around me and all of
that.

990
00:56:43,240 --> 00:56:46,440
But I don't know anyone who
doesn't feel a little othered.

991
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:51,880
I haven't met a creative person
who didn't feel a little outside

992
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:57,120
of normal, right?
And I think that's part of why

993
00:56:57,120 --> 00:57:00,760
we create is to make
connections.

994
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:03,840
Absolutely.
And I, I think it's not just

995
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:07,640
creative as everybody like
everyone has a sense of, I don't

996
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:10,680
really feel like I belong.
You know, everyone feels like

997
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:13,320
they're in the are they on the
inside and Japan like the

998
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:17,120
inside, outside is a big deal.
And you know, people will say

999
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:19,360
they're, you know, they're on
the inside, you know they made

1000
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:22,480
it or if you're on the outside,
it's really, it hurts.

1001
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:27,120
But I think everyone really is
kind of like walking on the

1002
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:30,520
border, like you're in, but
you're also, you feel a little

1003
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:33,600
out in some sense.
And that's where storytelling

1004
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:36,960
comes in because it it shares
that with everyone.

1005
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:39,840
And I think about some of the
big anime in Japan, like One

1006
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:43,720
Piece, it's Luffy, you know, the
pirate and the whole show was

1007
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:47,280
just him rescuing these friends
and say you belong, you're in,

1008
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:50,240
you're inside.
And then seeing them struggle

1009
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:54,200
with but I feel like I'm outside
and him insisting no, no, no,

1010
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:57,800
you're in.
And and then seeing them realize

1011
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:01,520
that for themselves is like each
arc of the the series as it goes

1012
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:05,000
on for thousand plus, you know,
episodes.

1013
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:07,960
I love that.
I also love the pictures that

1014
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:10,000
you post when you're in your
kimono.

1015
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:12,880
I have one that I have.
It's not behind me.

1016
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:19,720
I have a beautiful kimono with
storks and it's, I think it's

1017
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:23,840
actually authentic.
I've had it for, I think 30

1018
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:27,000
years.
I found it in a yeah, I found it

1019
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:34,560
in a funky, like antique place
and it was neglected in a little

1020
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:36,560
stain.
It's white and it's pink and the

1021
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:39,720
bottom is tufted so it stays in
its shape.

1022
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:42,880
So I don't know if that makes it
real or makes it not real, but

1023
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:45,840
it's stunning.
And I have it on one of those

1024
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:49,680
beautiful poles and it's they
look at it all the time.

1025
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:54,320
It's just so inspiring.
What are storks in Japanese like

1026
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:56,120
culture?
What do they represent there?

1027
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:58,800
It might be a crane.
Oh yeah, that's what I meant.

1028
00:58:58,800 --> 00:58:59,960
Like a crane.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1029
00:58:59,960 --> 00:59:03,800
It might be a crane.
And I would think like a wedding

1030
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:08,040
kind of kimono, like something
you would wear on the outside of

1031
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:11,640
the wedding kimono because it's
usually like luck or fidelity.

1032
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:16,080
There's probably other meanings
too, but that's the first thing

1033
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:17,200
that.
Jumped in my bedroom.

1034
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:20,520
It's good for that.
Like a both fidelity.

1035
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:22,040
I'll take both.
There you go.

1036
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:27,080
Yeah, I remember once I my
kimono teacher, she had an

1037
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:30,920
obiage like the sash that you
put on top of kind of the belt

1038
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:35,160
that goes around your waist and
it was white with golden cranes.

1039
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:38,080
And she said it was for a
wedding because of the luck that

1040
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:40,920
it brought so.
I will definitely post it.

1041
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:43,560
I think when I when I start
promoting this, everyone can

1042
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:47,760
like see that part.
I just, it was, I kept it in a

1043
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:49,520
closet.
I had it professionally cleaned

1044
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:53,200
like a couple of times cuz it
had gotten stained and I just

1045
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:57,160
like I was coveting it.
I just, I just, I thought it was

1046
00:59:57,160 --> 00:59:59,280
so beautiful.
And then I was like, why am I

1047
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:01,960
hiding this in protective
plastic?

1048
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:05,960
Like a grandmother, My grandma
in her apartment, right?

1049
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:08,400
Her sofa was in plastic.
I don't know.

1050
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:12,040
So now I have it and I just get
to admire that.

1051
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:15,160
So anyway, what?
Is.

1052
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:17,520
I know you look good in them
too.

1053
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:21,200
By the way, what's your next
great thing now Kickstarter's

1054
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:25,400
out, your books are out, people
want to read more, What do you

1055
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:26,960
Are you going to stick with
fantasy?

1056
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:31,640
So I have one more book and my
series is releasing.

1057
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:35,360
It's a series of interconnected
standalones, and it starts with

1058
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:39,120
Saints and Monsters, and then it
goes to the Last Wayfinder.

1059
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:42,080
There's two more books that
we'll be releasing probably this

1060
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:45,080
year, and then the year after
that are within that same

1061
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:47,320
series.
And it's all kind of like Meiji

1062
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:51,840
Restoration Japan, but with
Dragons and some of that E meets

1063
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:56,040
W vibes that I'm bringing to it
because that's part of my story

1064
01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:01,000
and it's all young adults.
And then after that I do have

1065
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:04,520
some other projects but I have
not finished them, so I'm not

1066
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:06,840
talking about them yet.
OK, I didn't know.

1067
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:10,720
Like if you're like, oh, we keep
that secret, so where can people

1068
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:12,200
find you?
Where do you want them to go?

1069
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:15,240
Find and follow and get your
books.

1070
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:20,520
Yeah, so all of my books are on
Amazon giant store, they're on

1071
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:23,120
KU Kindle Unlimited and on
Audible.

1072
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:26,880
They will all be in audiobook.
And I have an amazing mariner.

1073
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:29,720
They won awards.
So highly recommend the audio

1074
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:32,320
version, especially of Saints
and monsters in here.

1075
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:37,360
And then you can also find them
at libraries because now we can

1076
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:41,640
have KU books and libraries.
So wonderful.

1077
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:45,800
And then in the future, I might
be expanding some of those books

1078
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:49,000
to different platforms.
But as of now, that and Barnes

1079
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:52,240
and Noble as well.
And then your website, do you

1080
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:54,560
want them to follow you like on
Instagram or your website?

1081
01:01:55,960 --> 01:01:59,120
Yes, and you can follow me on
Instagram where I post all of my

1082
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:05,000
Japan and manga anime book news
and marketing tips and things

1083
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:07,440
like that.
And then also my website for my

1084
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:10,680
editing.
My editing information is up on

1085
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:13,280
my website.
Yeah, did you watch Blue Eyed

1086
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:15,760
Samurai?
I did not it.

1087
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:18,520
Was good I.
Couldn't tell if that one would

1088
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:21,120
be too graphic for me I'm.
Oh.

1089
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:23,320
I some I.
Don't like violence.

1090
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:26,680
I don't like violence.
I I don't watch it in general.

1091
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:29,160
I don't remember it being too
violent.

1092
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:31,920
Like I know some historical
Japanese shows are too violent

1093
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:35,240
for me.
That one I don't remember.

1094
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:36,520
I don't have that.
Spice.

1095
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:41,120
I tend to watch No spice and
limited violence but it really

1096
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:45,720
depends because I'm a huge fan
of Kaiju 8 which is monster gore

1097
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:48,960
so.
What's the other one?

1098
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:54,240
Oh my gosh, my brain.
There's another there's a very

1099
01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:57,160
famous actor.
He has his the Netflix one about

1100
01:02:57,160 --> 01:03:04,600
the band is out right now.
And he he does, he does like a I

1101
01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:07,920
should have written this part
down, but he has a he does a

1102
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:09,520
samurai.
It's two parts.

1103
01:03:09,640 --> 01:03:14,240
It starts with AK.
He's a movie and it's amazing.

1104
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:17,360
He's like a I'll send that to
you part the live tax, part

1105
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:19,960
movie.
Is it historical?

1106
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:22,720
Yes.
Is it Daroni Kinching?

1107
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:24,560
Yes.
OK.

1108
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:26,520
Yeah, those are amazing.
I've seen all of those.

1109
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:28,400
Those are great.
Yeah.

1110
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:33,080
Those are based on a manga and
has an anime as well.

1111
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:35,560
And the live actions and so
good.

1112
01:03:35,560 --> 01:03:36,800
Really, really great
storytelling.

1113
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:39,280
Yeah, OK.
So thanks for coming.

1114
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:42,760
I like to end every episode with
asking my guests the same

1115
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:45,440
question.
And that is, if you came with a

1116
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:49,320
warning label, what would it be?
I think my would be that I'm a

1117
01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:53,840
Hobbit and so I will probably
keep my door a little closed and

1118
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:59,200
have tea by myself.
But I I'm an introvert so I

1119
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:01,200
think that's my warning label.
Just be prepared.

1120
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:04,720
I am the same.
I was actually telling my

1121
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:07,840
producer Andy before we started,
I was like, he's like, I'm a

1122
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:10,600
night owl or whatever.
I'm like, I'm neither because if

1123
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:13,040
I could be alone, I'll just
close the door.

1124
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:14,880
And people always find that very
surprising.

1125
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:18,680
But I really need that time.
I do find that surprising.

1126
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:22,320
I know Chuck, it's true though.
It's so true.

1127
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:26,840
See, that's the Moody part.
I I love the connection.

1128
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:30,200
And then I run away and then I
can.

1129
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:33,280
Charge and refill, that's how I
do it.

1130
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:36,520
So thank you, Ellen, so much for
being a guest on the Holly

1131
01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:39,280
Hughes Podcast.
If you liked it, please leave a

1132
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:42,480
comment like subscribe and
follow and we'll see you again

1133
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:42,880
soon.