From Burnout to Jeju: The Tour Guide Helping the World Discover Korea’s Most Magical Island | Soraya Ho 허소라

0:10 Welcome to this episode of the Holly Hughes Podcast, where people come to listen to stories and life about living a life outside of the corporate box. Today, I'm excited because I know this woman. Actually, I know three people with her name, which is part of what I can't wait to get into. But Sora Ho is a multilingual goddess of Jeju. This is what I've given you as a title. She's an official tour guide, and she has her own podcast, which is called Vamos A Jeju. So welcome, Sora. Thank you for joining me. Hello everyone, thank you for having me. Goddess subject you. That's a big man. I love it. I think we met on a tour and I want to know how you went from corporate America, IT technology to managing personalities and people coming to a place that you live and love.

1:05 So can you bring me through that and don't skip over Africa? It's very random. So first of all, I studied English Literature and Business from University, University of Seoul. And then after graduation I start working in E company in like corporate Korean company and you know, as skiing. I was working there as a developer for four years. And back then the working, you know, in Korea, we say work, work and life balance and it was not good. It was really, really bad. So sometimes we work like until one AM, 2:00 AM and then we had to go back to the office in the morning like 8:00 AM.

1:50 So there's no life at all. So I did like for four years, and I felt like, oh, I'm done. And actually there's one more story, actually one of my Sunday, you know, Sunday. Yeah, I like say that in English like. Like an older senior. Like a senior. Right, just one I. Think that's. Yeah, I think that's a word they should actually use often in the translations of shows because they say it so often. I was like, if you actually just say the word, we'll understand it. That's one of. My things, yeah. So one of my someday, like most important someday he commit a suicide.

2:30 OK. Yeah, in that it affect me a lot, a lot. So I could not stand working in the same places. So I was like, OK, I'm done. I'm, I'm just quitting this job. And back then my, one of my friends, he travelled to Latin America. So he just told me that it's a really good place. So I was like, OK, I'm quitting my job and there's nothing to do, so I'll just go to America. So I I plan to travel like for one or two months. And then I extended the travel for six months. Wow. It was really. Yeah. I was really happy, I think. So after six months.

3:13 So I came back to Korea and then I was into salsa dancing that time because Latin America, they dance a lot. So I met a girl in the club, salsa club. And then she told me like she know one travel agency, they're looking for a tour leather. So maybe you can try that one. So I tried the interview with the owner, with the boss, and then he said, OK, OK, let's work together. So I start working as a tour leather for Korean girls to go to Latin America around 10 years.

3:55 Wait, wait, I have to stop because this is also many good things. I had two roommates from South America. One was Colombian and 1 was Argentinian and they're dancing. Forget it. Like when when you're saying salsa, if if anyone has not actually danced with someone from Latin America, you cannot understand the power and the sexiness of how they move. And they are. The men are very in command of it and I always tell this story. I think one of the most beautiful humans I ever met. His name was Maro and I could first of all, he was so out of my league. He was just no and but he was the cousin of my roommate so he was always there and I would just be in the corner like little chubby version of me. They call me Gordita.

4:41 I was like, I was like man, because I became fluent. I definitely could understand everything and they would practice their English while I practice my Spanish. So by the end we would just be bickering, right? Because we could talk so fast, right? But I would just be like, because he was so good looking. And then I one day he's like, do you want to dance with me? I was like, yeah, yeah. And we dance. And of course there was nothing. But he was so good, you know, like he just twisted me everywhere. And I can dance, I dance. But like an American salsa class is very different than after hours club because all the clubs, I was in Washington, DC then, so the Latin American clubs all opened at midnight or 1:00 AM.

5:25 So they opened up very late and they stayed open until 5:00 in the morning. And then I would go to school. I'm just saying. Wow. I know, but see, they were all on drugs. They were all on drugs. And I didn't know that because I didn't. I'm so naive. I didn't do any. So they were all high as a kite. That's how they did it, but not me. I just dragged my tiredness over. But that's very different. And the Spanish they speak is different than the Spanish I learned in school, which was much more from Spain and a little bit with the Castilian. Right. Which is, I would assume easier to learn or speak because I find Korean is in the front of the mouth as well, right? You guys touch your tongue there often too when speaking? It's one of my big stumbling box in learning the language is that it's like my tongue is not in the right spot. Whatever.

6:17 That's very. Weird. It doesn't really matter. I try. Some people don't like it. Like some people like, oh, that's good, You tried. Other people are like, my teacher was like, that's not how you do it. I was like, it's my first time saying this word. Just give me, let me try. Let me try. Look at your face. I mean, language is for communication. You don't really need to put like the right exact what is the right pronunciation because also Korean people don't make the sounds properly. You know that like we always make, we always mumble. So doesn't really matter. I think you blend sounds like, you know, they you blend sounds different. So I think my big journey was that after all the classes I took, I learned that I'm a throat speaker.

6:59 That guy really speak in my throat. And it's Korean is much more of a mouth language. But I want to know where you were in Latin America. What country? At first I traveled to Mexico, Cuba, through Bolivia, Ecuador, Colombia, basically everywhere, Chile and Indiana. So I went to America. My first time was 2015. Back then my favorite country was Cuba. But I went to Cuba this year again for the tour and it was very different from what I experienced it before. That's sad.

7:40 How big is the tour that you lead there? Like how many people do you usually take over at a time? So usually one group is 25 Korean people and it's or one month. OK, if you're not watching the video, my mouth is totally open that wow. OK, we'll go back to that because I want to finish like how you ended up back on DJ. So I appreciate you. Thank you for sharing. Because like having someone die by suicide is very hard. And although I'm always curious about the Korean culture is part of why I visit, there's something in me that feels home there. That work culture is something I I know I wrestle with because it's the Bali, Bali. And I just have heard so many horror stories about office workers in the amount of time and then the no life and all the pressure.

8:32 And I was hoping that that was changing a little, but I don't think that it is, is it? I think it's changing slowly, slowly because compared to the time that I was in the corporate. So it's been like how many years now? It was 2012, so that was it's been 15 years and I think it's changing and it has changed a lot, but still we have many problem. Have you watched the new K drama series on Netflix, The Dream Life of Mr. Kim? It's about like, Korean seniors and it is so true. Like, it's very crucial, but it's true. I started, it started and it was so sad because I felt like that would have been me that I stopped. But it's like, I think it opens and he's like sitting in the guy's chair or whatever.

9:32 And I was like, oh, we're probably the same age. And so I was like, I that's too much reality for me. I don't want that right now. I don't know all. The same thing happened sex. Similar thing happened to me when I watch When life Give You the tendering. Yeah. It's not me but like I couldn't stop crying until like episode 4 so I was like OK, I should stop so I just stopped it. I stopped that one for a while too. Did you finish? I did. I finish. I don't know if I watched the last episode. I think so. For me, it's always a combination of curiosity, because that's what drives me in my life, like, and wanting to be better.

10:18 And how do I create. When I first got turned on to like Korean storytelling, when I write fiction, it's very magical realism. So your Korean storytelling and some of the older dramas that I watched had elements that seems so that made sense to me. That was like, Oh my God, that's how I tell story. That's how I see it. And it's often a hurdle for me. When I share my stories, people are like, I don't understand. And I'm like, what do you mean? So I was like, I have to work it out. So that's like a writer's problem. But like I just love that. And when I was there and I'm Start learning about the culture and what is life like in the history, the Japanese occupation.

10:58 Like when I start going deeper beyond the beauty and the surface and K beauty and all the things that I still enjoy, there's a trauma that is reminds me of my family stories. So sometimes it's too much for me and sometimes it makes me feel more connected, all depending on what the the story is. But there's something about the character. Because you also taught me that Jeju is full of right wind women in rocks, right? Wasn't the third one. Rocks. Yes, yes. Right, right. See, but when I saw the women and why they were strong, right? You know, like I just had a whole other layer to all of that. So and she was always screaming and my grandmother was like that.

11:42 Everyone said she's a loud talker. She would just yell at you because she loved you. Like she was loud. So that kind of reminded me of that. But at some point I'm like, stop yelling, stop yelling. It's why my mom says she has a very soft voice was because her mother was always yelling, but I did not. I know that they end up together like all the the things and their story was pretty, but I kept thinking back of what you had taught me and what I had researched and was tying it all together. OK, so let's go back to you in South America. OK, so you've you stay there six months and then you come back and you become a guide. So how long did you do that before you ended up in Jeju and what brought you there?

12:30 So I worked as a toileter for Korean group from 2016 until this year. And then it's long time, 10 years. But we had pandemic in the middle. So during pandemic, you know, everything stopped. We could not go outside Korea. And then I feel like I want to do something new because I can't go outside. I want to do something new. And then I found this tour guiding inside Korea for foreigners. And I started in Seoul. And then I didn't really enjoy living in Seoul because, you know, it's busy, it's beautiful, but it's too many people, too much competition. Originally, I was born in the like near DMZ in a countryside. I was born in the countryside, but we moved to Seoul when I was like 13.

13:28 So I lived like like greater Seoul for more than 10 years or 20 years, I think. Yeah. And I didn't really enjoy it. And my partner and I, my husband and I, we were like, we want to go to let's go. I know we want to live in just you later in the future when we have enough money. And we talked about this a lot. So like during pandemic we're like, maybe we should just go to Jeju. And actually I had an interview with an agency in Jeju and I got the job. So OK, let's just go, let's just move to Jeju. So that's how it. Happened.

14:08 Do you live like on in the like? Jeju is bigger than I thought. So I think I should tell like what I had an idea of it, even though I had seen shows that it was smaller, but it's pretty large. It's like way bigger than I thought. It's got different different places. It's got different cities with in it as well. So I think a lot of people just think it's Tangerines and fishing and it's a lot more than that. So that's that's amazing. So I live pretty rural. You would probably like it and I crave cities. So see, we have the opposite. It's funny. We have funny, so I want to say you were an amazing I want transfer. I want you were my tour guide in Jeju and when I met you, I was really sick and I was really trying not to be a bummer right, because I just honestly wanted to spend one day in bed and I was like, well, I'm only here for 5:00 so I can't spend a day in bed. Yours like so kind and helped to get me medicine and I was just like I didn't want to blow my nose in front. I was like, I don't want to get anyone else sick, but my body was like, I had been traveling for two weeks already on my own. And my body just from the grind of it because I'm older than everyone that I was traveling with was just, I was like slowing down.

15:20 But you were encouraging and kind. And so I, I admire that because I don't know if people understand what it's look like to be you standings and staring at these strangers that you don't know, trying to accommodate them and all the needs that each person has. So how, what part of your personality like let's you just kind of go with that because you are very good at that. And, and I should also tell people who maybe haven't been to Korea is that it's very hilly, right?

16:00 You should be in shape. You should be able to walk at a good pace because the ageses and the agamas will pass you if you do not get out of their way, even on the hikes. So and I skipped out of a hike one day the the first day because I knew I couldn't really breathe so I didn't want to be the girl in the back. That would annoy me to no end. But you do have to manage people who don't think like that. So how how is the sort of magic like, how do you do that? Can you? When you see people now, can you identify which personality they will have? Or do people still surprise you? Yeah, actually I think I'm a little talented on that. I can read, I think because of my experience, like working with people, like travelling.

16:58 So when I see people I think I know who needs help because some people don't feel well and some people feel it's like uncomfortable with something. And then I think I can read that facial expression or that atmosphere. Yeah, I think that's one of my ability to read like what people feel. Do you ever take it personally or are you able to like keep it like this is? This is just work and it's not about me. Do you know like I don't? I think a few first year of of how do I say like when I first start working, I I felt that way. I felt like maybe he's not comfortable because of me. But then like after a few years, I realized that it was not me. And then now I feel like it's not me. I mean, they have something on their, I mean their situation. So yeah, I think I don't really take it for me from me. Yeah, yeah, Personally, yeah.

18:12 At a transition point in your life and you're wondering how do I go from point A to point B? I'm tired of being defined by what other people think of me. Read my book Real, Not perfect. How to Become your happy authentic self. It's a step by step guide to help you reclaim your voice, your passion and yourself worth. Available at all booksellers and in the links below. If you're enjoying the stories about my friends from all over the world, I know you're going to love an upcoming episode with Tara Konigan. She is an Irish Sessions musician and her podcast is Sessions Etiquette. Go check her out. When you like switched from like corporate. Is there like something you wish you knew about what you were about to do? Or do you think it was better just to dive in? I think it's better not knowing and dive in. Same because most of my friends they're they're still in the corporate and they make a lot of money. So it's better not knowing and then just go for it. That's so funny.

19:23 So like, you're still young though too. Like you, you started young and still are working young. I, I like that is there, I know in your, on your podcast. So I, I also know you're fluent in now English, Spanish and obviously Korean. So when you're doing your podcast almost did you like I, I know that you speak in Spanish. So is that Channel 100% in Spanish always? Oh the the podcast is 100% in English. But the reels I see that you do in Spanish. Yeah, also I'm preparing a tour in Spanish. That's why, because the Co host Ed is also speak some Spanish and then we were talking like most of Americans, they know the expression vamos somewhere. So maybe we can just use that.

20:15 And I also preparing tour for Spanish people, Spanish speaking people. So well, actually 100% English. OK, excellent. I love that because when I first heard it, I was like, look at you. And you're like, yeah, script. I was like, no, you can read a script, but you have to. The way you speak is much more natural than just a script. So I highly recommend. I'm a big fan. OK, so I know what Jeju is kind of famous for. What do you find people come there most curious about? I think nowadays the Henya Momon diver and it's really big thing. So like last week I have a documentary team came to Juju to fill in the documentary for woman diver with the free diving champions.

21:06 Yeah, it was really cool. And of course the nature here because we have one of the nature. No, we have the seven wonders of nature in. You have the big craters. Right, that one, that one we went up together. Yeah. Well, I think, well, I think that's the day I skipped. I think that was. Yeah, maybe. But like at the second day, we went to see another crater and it was just raining and it's just fog. It's just the weather in Jeju is we'll give you whiplash. So pack for rain and bright sun. And it's that was fascinating to me. But I have a favorite hike.

21:46 I actually took a video. I did walk slow that day because I was so happy, not because I couldn't do it. It was the day we went up towards the lighthouse. The small islands. Yeah, the Urdu Udo Udo, I think that was that little hike because it really wasn't very hard, but it was so peaceful to me. And the the way down that forest was so peaceful. If I could camp, like I would stay there. I have all these videos of just walking down the path and another woman on the tour heard Kim. She was there with me. I was like, oh, at least I'm like, well, I've been having to wait for people. They can wait 5 minutes. I was just so happy. I didn't want to leave. It was more of of that as opposed to anything else. I think I felt a little better finally, and it was stunning. So, you know, I'm an intuitive, so I can see things. And so when I'm in Korea, I will see things that I don't know what they are because they're not my culture and I wasn't exposed to them.

22:48 So when I first went to Youngju and I saw a giant White Horse in my eye, like in my mind's eye, everywhere. And then when I went in and saw that it was the spirit of the place, I was like, OK, that's crazy. And then we went to a temple and I kept seeing they weren't dokebi, right? But they looked a lot like the stone Dokebi, like they looked like that gremlin. I don't know how to explain. I don't have. Maybe you have better words to explain what they look like. But it's other people the American audience might know, like Foo dogs, temple dogs. But they look their faces kind of round in Korea. And I'm like looking around and I'm like, what, what are these? And like I went and researched when we, when I got back to my hotel, I was like, I am seeing all of these really cool things. So in Jeju, in that part of the woods, I felt similar. I felt like beautiful, loving, welcoming, like spirit. And so I was like, well, why would I want to leave this spot? I, I like this.

23:54 And because some of the Dolkebi were like, you can see me and they would give me weird looks. And I know this all sounds crazy, but it's true, right? So I would see some of that. But that was also very interesting because the land of Jeju is so different than actually of Korea. And that's like something that you spend a lot of time teaching people about. So is that part of what brought you there too and keeps you there the difference? But I, I just want to say, I mean, you may remember, maybe you remember that I, I told you to you, we still have 18,000 different garden goddess. Yes, many, many. And then we still have a lot of shamanistic ritual because actually two weeks ago we had shamanistic ritual for the woman diver for the safety of the year.

24:45 And then we had the shaman came and then he did those. How do I say the ritual? Ritual. Yeah, the rituals. And then people were crying, people were laughing. Was really, really like fascinating, really interesting. Maybe you should come and see that one and you will see a whole different. I did I remember asking you to see if I could see one, but you told me they don't stay in towns, that the shamans are typically outside of the main spot. But I have there's a Netflix show that has all Korean shamans. Did you do you know about this one? But I kind.

25:26 Of. You know, because I, you know, I don't know, Korea makes me happy. So they do Saju, right? They do cards, tarot astrology and you know, I know they have 12 guides each 12 ancestors, right? The guardians like each shaman when they study whatever I those, that's what I learned when I research. They brought all of these shamans onto a stage and for me, I could feel all of then I could feel their guides watching the show and I can I was like, that's too much. And then they were testing people's abilities and they brought a picture of a woman. And although I can feel people who have passed, right, I'm a medium. I don't like doing it.

26:07 It makes me physically gives me really bad headache. They brought a picture of a woman who had died. And so everyone was writing, like, what they saw. And I was like, no, this is not a show for me. Like, if I could learn about how they connect. But I guess there's a lot of secrecy around it, right? There's like an interesting barrier. And like, this is kept private, right? So no matter how much I would research something, to find it in English is very impossible for me. But I wanted to get a set of bells. I really wanted butterfly bells. Once you come back, I'll take you to the shaman so you can. I'll go for that. Like if in ginger actually like not many, but some people still do those kind of ritual and like fortune telling for like with the shaman. So yeah, it would be really.

27:00 Interesting because they have the drums and the ribbons and they some they have fans and knives and you know, they just do it so different. They they kind of like, force themselves into a trance that almost looks like. To me, yeah, it is. It is right. Yeah, so. Speak about because I know you're studying to be a female diver and I'm just not saying the word because I can't pronounce it very well. So the the women divers say their name Henya, Henya Henya. See, that's a hard one for me. So they are amazing. And we saw a show of the women. Yeah. Yeah, so for me, the older woman was she was so beautiful.

27:44 I even said I was like, yeah, for that. She's no I was like, yes, but she was 80 and still diving. And I have so many questions about the ability to get in that ice cold water, right and to still free dive and and you are learning about it like first hand and now are diving as well. So is that one of those things you're like, I'm just going to do it or did you think about that one? I wanted to do it but before but I was too busy. I could not and then now I am taking rest from the tour, leading for the turian groups. So I have time. So it's OK, I have time. Then what should I do for this year? So it was like my New Year's wish, New Year's resolution. So I just applied and then I got accepted. So like when I started something new, I don't really think too much because like when I think about new thing, I feel like oh, it's going to be fun.

28:43 I don't really see the risk or I don't see the disadvantage of doing it. I always think it's, oh, it's going to be fun, just do it. Just try and if it's not fun I can just give up. So this is what is also fascinating about the handyo to me is like their equipment isn't modern right? They still free dive in older suits and older masks. Is there a reason why they don't modernize any of that? Before 1970 they were using the cotton suit, but after 1970 they change it to the the wet suit and of course it became a lot better.

29:24 And I think nowadays for the the mask I, I don't know why, but they keep their equipment and the woman diver, they don't really see any disadvantage of using it because they use their years to it. So they felt comfortable using it. So there's no reason to change. I love that and I could never do that. So how deep can you free dive now? For me I can do 10m. That's amazing, but. I mean if you want cuz there's a like petty, like scuba diving, also free diver, there's a level so I got like petty level 2.

30:08 It means I need to touch the 10m and then go up so I can have the level 2. So for me, I mean I can just go to the pen meter and then go up like right away. I don't, I studied Paddy. I try to scuba dive. I am the worst in water and my husband is 6 foot 5. He's so he's 198 centimeters. He's a big person. And so they're like, well, if you dive with him, you have to be able to flip him underwater, right and bring him up. No, I don't know. I just do this. Not good. I could take your mask off underwater right where we took the test. It was it's the Pacific, so it was freezing.

30:49 I think I was the only person they had whoever failed and I tried so hard. I like practice by putting my face and ice in my kitchen, trying to not panic, but the minute my forget it, then you're choking. I was like, this is so embarrassing. So that you can do it in any way is amazing. It is amazing. Maybe we'll have to add some like images of their cotton clothing because it's just AT shirt that they would swim in the Pacific with. It's crazy. It's really cold and in spring it's 1113 Celsius degree the water.

31:32 Yeah, no. And. Yeah, and like last week when I last week. Yeah, but and when we go for documentary, we tell them the woman divers going to dive and some of them were like the oldest one was 88 years old and then she came with her stick because she could not walk properly. But once she get into the water, she's free. She spells a lot better without gravity. It was amazing. Amazing. I'd love that. So do you think they will still be around in 30 years? Do you think there's enough young people to carry that tradition on?

32:13 Now we're having now we're having a lot more young people. I know some the younger ones. She's been her 30s and we also have one woman diver from from US actually. Do you know her though? She's really you have your or maybe you can also have her as your guest. She's she's also very. I love that. Yeah, yeah. So there are many like young woman diver, not many, but there are a few woman diver like young woman diver who start working as a as a Henyo institute. Wow, So what is The Apprentice that you are?

32:55 You're an apprentice, Henyo. So but it but is there a word for that? Intern Intern Henya. OK, is that is that in Korean too? They just say it like. Yeah, we just say Intel, you know that we use so. Many. I need a better word. You use so many Conglish. Conglish. Nice. Many, many Conglish. OK, so like what is coming up next for you? So how many tours are you going to do? I didn't even talk about the sticks. I think the sticks were my favorite. Like the sticks at the door, the. I. Guess that is what stuck with me. I was like, that works for me. 3, two or one, I'm not here, go away and I'll be right back. I don't know if I loved the whole idea of that. Do people still actually do that in like the rural spots or anywhere?

33:44 Or is it just like a piece of history? We still use it all. I mean, in the touristic place, of course people use it. I think in the countryside some of them are still using it. Well, first. Now it's it's fading away. It was one of my favorite little things, but it was I was like, that is so smart. It's a great signal, especially when you didn't have phones. I am curious that if you had to mentor someone to do what you do, what would be something that you would like, suggest or say to them if you were the sombe of someone coming? I'm like, who wanted to be a tour guide in Jeju?

34:26 Specifically, what trait or personality or something do you think is necessary I. Think first of all you need to light people. I, I mean, some people told me they prefer animal than human being. So then it's going to be hard for them to be a tour guide because you are going to meet many different people. And I think like each of them has like different experience, different view. And then always there's something I admire or something I can learn from. So I think that's the spirit for being a tour guide.

35:09 Can you do tour after tour or do you take like downtime in between? April is the busiest season so yeah, so I have only one or two day off but still it's OK. But cuz usually now I'm doing like two or three days more. So after that one one day off is OK, but the one from goodmate travel we do one week or 10 days. Then I do need the down down time, yes. Do you break out your Higum for people when on tour now? Because now I know you're a musician and you could play. Did I say that right? I loved that video Higum.

35:52 So that makes me think of Sugar because right, he has the song. Right. You know, right? So now BTS tour is out, it's April and cherry blossoms. So do those things make more tourists come and are they different than other time of year? April is the most busy season because of cherry blossom, right? And also the weather is warm and it's good. It's nice for the hey come, the Korean traditional instruments. No, I don't bring it to that group because I'm too embarrassed. But sometimes I bring it to like the individual tours. If there's only two people or three, then I bring it and then maybe we just try to play in the forest.

36:44 I would have done that. That sounds amazing, right? So when do you think is the actual best time to come that's not popular to Jeju? Of course, the best time is spring and autumn, but also winter has its own charm because I really like the mountain. I love fun. The the tallest mountain in South Korea, all covered with white snow and it's beautiful, beautiful. It's like stunning, beautiful so. I like travelling during winter. There's also so many less people, so you get to have less crowds because I should tell people like I took a lot of pretty pictures, but there are many people. There's always, always people.

37:33 So I think when I first arrived, I was so surprised at that because when you see pictures I don't like people are photoshopped out. But there's a lot of people everywhere, which is part of what I like and part of what's surprising. But also sometimes you're like, oh, this is this was a little different than I thought. So yeah, I like that. Also in winter it's a lot cheaper. The hotels and tours and the rental cars, everything's cheaper and less people. Less people I like, I like that. So do you think that you are just going, you're going to stay like Jeju is your home for good now forever? I think so cuz actually my husband we really love to living in Tizu and until now we can't think of moving to another place.

38:25 So I think we are going to live here for a very long time. I love that for you. So what do you think is the misconception or the thing that people come to see but like it isn't exactly what they think it is? Is there? Does that exist for you in groups? I I think not really. I think most people really like to see those natures and the woman divers. I think those kind of reaction is usually come from Koreans for visitors. No, you're the Koreans. Ha is that old?

39:08 You always say that? I don't know why. I know the way you said that. I'm like, oh, I knew that too. And I was like, yeah. That's what Korean always say that. So funny, I you know, the other thing that I didn't know about and then I screamed on the beach. I call them water bugs or roaches. The black bugs on all the rocks at the beach. You did not warn me about those. And I was what? I walked up and I was about to sit on what I thought was a Black Rock. No, it was not a Black Rock. It was just a rock covered in those roaches. And I screamed loud because I, I don't know why I didn't see it before.

39:50 My tush came close to it, but I screamed, fuck. I was like, I was just like, whatever. And one of the women who was very British on, you know, my group was like, Holly, what's your language? I was like, they don't know what I'm saying. And I almost was eaten alive by the number of bugs right here. I never hiked up a hill so fast after that. I was like, no. It's OK. Well, we call them as well like cleaner of the sea, they cleaned the surface of the rock and then near the sea. So they're not a bad, but they are good one good boys. I don't mind that they're good or bad.

40:31 There was just so many. The whole beach was covered. And so I was like, I'm up here having everyone else. They were in a coffee shop. They were all just like sipping their coffee. I was like, I am, I enjoy the coffee shops there because each one has a view or something, but I'm not really one to sit and just sip coffee. But I, I ran into the coffee shop after that. I was like, I think I'm done with that beach. That was that was, that was my ah moment. I was like, no, no, people who know me, they're like, that was a very Holly reaction. I was like, the beach moved.

41:12 I don't think you understand. OK. So is there anything that you would love to introduce about Jeju to someone who's like, maybe just hearing about it for the first time? Like, what would you love to introduce people to? Because there is so much history and culture there that's very different than the rest of Korea. So like, first of all, people come to Jeju because people call Jeju like Hawaii of South Korea. And it is because it's volcanic islands. You're going to see like many, many black rocks around the coastal area. And also it was that honeymoon destination before. So it is Hawaii of South Korea.

42:01 So the nature is really beautiful at 1st. And the other thing as you mentioned, we have like different culture and history. It's very distinctive from the mainland and those culture like for example the woman diver or we have 18,000 different garden goddess. And like many like ridiculous lessons. There's so many things to learn because I am not from Jeju. I moved here like 4-5 years ago and I'm still learning their culture. Like still there's so many things to discover. So yeah, if you come to Jeju, you will see like different parts of South Korea.

42:48 Yeah, I really like that. How long do you think you have to live there to be considered a local? It's almost impossible here. The native, like Indigenous, native community is very strong. So if you're not from Jeju, it's very difficult to be the part of local. Will they always keep you a little bit out? And they have their own language. I can understand now, but I can speak the language and it's really difficult. I learned something more today.

43:28 I love that. Yeah. I think there's a lot now. I might have to do some diving about all of those gods and goddesses. I wonder if I could find some of the things that I saw. It's so hard to explain to people. And I don't, you know, I kind of keep that to myself. And when I go back in my hotel, I usually journal like what I think, what I was feeling or whatever. But though I'm telling you, those woods on that little island, I don't know, they were magic for me. It was just like, it's almost, it was almost like I could hear footsteps of like of, of people. I would like spirit. I don't know, however, word would be right, but like a little spirit in the in the woods. And I think Americans or British people might call them fairies or, you know, you just hear this, you could hear a skimpering. And yes, it's it was like wet and the leaves were wet. And of course you could say that, but it's just a magical feeling.

44:23 So thank you for having patience with me that day. I appreciate you. I know you were so fun like the last night. And you even let your husband come. I love that your husband comes to pick you up at the end. I was like, are you going to let him meet the crazies? That's impressive and of course we should tell people you had to bring your man there because Jeju men are different. Right, right. We have talked about this, right, right. Women's are so strong, the mainland band, they doesn't like Jeju woman. I mean most most of the band they don't like strong woman, right. So same thing happened in South Korea. And then when we have strong woman they usually have different like lazy lazy. Boy, that's what I meant.

45:13 Lazy. Oh wait, I have one last question. Because on that they'll give you Tangerines. She was never allowed on the boat. Is that still a superstition or not? Still, I don't think so. I mean, I can be on the boat because I pay for it, but those kind of superstition. We had a lot, a lot in the past. But this year actually we have the ritual for the new year. And then I was trying to go to see the ritual and actually woman are not allowed to get in. So I was like really seriously.

45:57 And actually we had another ritual for woman. So I was like, OK, I see. But it was still we have something like this. I love that. I would love a tour like that, right? All the things that they like to keep secret. So they probably wouldn't want any, you know, foreigners there at all. But like that is that's fascinating to me because for me, the where the women were going in to the ocean and cotton and diving all those meters, right? And like surviving all of that. But I can't step on your boat. Like what that man was like. You have a boat with an engine and sails.

46:38 And I mean, it's, it's very dangerous. Fishing can be very dangerous too. But still you had your women under the water. Just saying anyway, so thank you, Soda for joining me. I like ending each interview with the same question, which is if you came with a warning label, what would it be? So I was thinking about it and I think my warning label would be I go deep on the random things. I love that answer because that to me I interpret as you follow your curiosity.

47:19 Right, right, right. If it looks like fun, OK, let's go for it. Yeah, and like dive into it and if not, next. Yeah, another one. Next, there's more. So where can people come and find you and connect with you? Where do you want them to go? So you can find me on Instagram, Soraya dot Juju or I also have English podcast about Juju Island. It's babosaju.com. You can find it on Apple podcast, Spotify and YouTube as well. And actually we're building DIY trip planner page and we're gonna lunch on May soon. So it'll be up and available.

48:05 Yeah, OK. You're good. That's exciting. I'm excited for that for you. That's a lot of. Work right, Ed is doing all the coding but. Good. Yes, yes. So it's a trip planner that we put all different activity what you can do in Jeju and then you can put in the slot. So you can have like whole itinerary for yourself and it's all free. So you can just try and then have your own itinerary for the. Wow, that is really amazing. I like that.

48:46 I have to say, Like I part of why I think makes you special. If I, if I could share that is that, well, you're funny and you're smart and you don't talk down to anyone like during the tour and you treat us like adults, but you still have a love of a place and you're sharing the love of a place, which makes us more curious. And we got to see your personality too. I'm saying you're professional, but like, you know, you let your guard down enough to like have a joke or two or have a little soju and a beer, which is my favorite. Just becoming a friends. Yeah, yeah. It felt, it felt that way Like you have a friend who's showing you around.

49:31 And so I want to thank you for that. And for anyone who's curious about exploring, I would say that is the way to go. That's what I have to. Say about soda. And I just love saying her name. You have to say it with me. Everyone goes soda. Yeah. Soda. Yeah. So anyway, thank you everyone for listening to this episode of the Holly Hughes Podcast, and we'll see you soon.