From Litigator to Connection Expert, Shari Leid's Flip the Box Story | Shari Leid

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Welcome to the Holly Hughes
Podcast, where creative people

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come together to explore our
lives outside of the corporate

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box.
Today, I'm very excited to speak

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with author and connection
expert Sherry Lead.

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Thank you for coming today.
Yeah, it's nice to finally

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connect.
We've been following each other

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on social media for a while, so
this feels great.

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It feels like we know each
other.

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Yeah, I know.
I'm so excited because you are

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busy.
I want to know how you do it.

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I want to learn so much from
you.

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But I have so many things that
when I read your work and that

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I've been listening to you, I
was like, Oh my God, we have a

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parallel.
Oh my God, we have a parallel.

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Because I say I have a thing
about boxes, like don't put me

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in it because I'll smash it and
dance on top.

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But you started life in one.
And I love that you're taking

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ownership.
And then you always speak about

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flipping it.
So for people who don't know

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your origin, which is amazing,
can you share a little bit about

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how you started?
Sure.

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Well, I was orphaned in Seoul,
South Korea, and I was found in

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a cardboard box with no
identifying information, so no

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name, no birth date.
And you know, my throughout my

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life, I was adopted by an
American couple.

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And throughout my life it was
good.

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But that box kept on kind of
popping up saying you don't

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belong here.
And finally, in 2023, I got

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tired of that, and I traveled
across the USI met a stranger in

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every state.
I was looking for connection and

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belonging.
I didn't.

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Yeah.
Oh, you're my book.

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Yeah.
And so I didn't necessarily know

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that was what I was looking for
at the time.

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I wanted to believe I was
welcome everywhere.

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We had just come out of the
pandemic and all of our

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political and racial strife in
our country that I wanted to

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demonstrate that we can have
have a meal and a conversation

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with anybody.
If we look different, if we're

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on different economic levels,
different education levels,

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etcetera.
And in this process, why I was

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having these organic
conversations, I realized a

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question I kept asking was what
feels like home?

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Where feels like home?
What's family, what's community?

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And I found that connection
through these conversations, the

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connection to self and
belonging.

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And I realized I had
symbolically taken that box that

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told me I didn't belong and
flipped it and became a table or

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connection.
Belonging was found and that's

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where the term put the boxes
come from and everything has

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been built after that upon that.
Yeah, I love that because I have

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this whole thing about the idea
of home and home is safe.

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I've lost my home to a fire and
an earthquake.

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I had a starter marriage lost,
you know, divorce like so to

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have nothing is very hard to
explain to people like to or not

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being settled.
So like when I saw that about

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you, I was like, Oh yeah, I'm
like so curious about that.

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And like you're adoptive
parents, right?

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Their life was interesting to
their home was taken away as

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well.
So like how did that impact like

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the home that you grew up with?
Were they private or were they

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super welcoming?
Like where was that balance?

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Yeah, what you're referring to?
So I said I was adopted by

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American parents.
Well, my parents were born in

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America, my dad in Seattle and
my mom in Bainbridge Island, a

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30 minute ferry ride from
Seattle.

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But they were also of Japanese
descent.

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Their parents were immigrants.
And so my parents, you know,

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grew up, went through American
schools, had never even to their

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dying day, gone outside the
country except to visit Canada.

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But because of their Japanese
descent and there was a

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generation between us, so they
were the age of my friend's

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grandparents growing up.
Because of their lineage, they

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were placed in internment camps
during World War 2.

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So that was part of this project
is because of their experience

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and the racism they found and
experienced.

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During World War Two.
We stayed to the West Coast as a

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family for family vacations.
And I grew up with this

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basically unset belief that I
would not be welcomed everywhere

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in the US because of the way I
looked.

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And I want to personally rewrite
that belief.

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And so this travel was also for
my parents.

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They have since passed and my
dad was very close to.

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Interesting thing is, his second
career was a instructor for the

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deaf, so he taught deaf students
math at Seattle Central

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Community College.
They had a deaf program and

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nowadays you don't see deaf
schools around the US.

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You don't see signs for them.
I saw three different signs

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randomly in places I was as I
traveled the US And some of

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these were smaller towns,
smaller cities.

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And I would say, you know, Texas
school for the deaf or whatever

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the place was.
I thought, OK, yeah, my dad is

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here on this trip around this US
with me and being welcomed

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everywhere.
I really love that because I

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also have daddy issues, but like
for me, when I meet people who

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have that connection, like
that's not has No Fear or no

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strings attached.
I'm just so happy that it

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exists.
You have this amazing

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upbringing.
You are probably feeling a

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little different.
Like I also identify with that

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as well.
I also think like my parents

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were first and second generation
immigrants from people escaping

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the Holocaust or like they're
just a different mindset.

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And like what we're brought up
learning, which is people are

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judging you, you have to do
better.

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You have to do better than me.
If a generation ahead doesn't

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heal those wounds, it gets
passed on.

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So it affects, you know, even
though I was adopted, you know,

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not biologically this couple's
child, what they experience is

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passed down.
And if I don't heal it, I'm

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going to pass that down to my
kids.

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So absolutely it affects us.
That was.

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Like a big thing for me.
I'm like, I'm going to give her

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different reasons to go to
therapy.

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Yeah, I'm sure you'll be annoyed
at me for something, but you are

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going to therapy for different
things that I went through.

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Let's go back to like, you were
a litigator, so why did you

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choose that?
Like, what part of your

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personality did that fit?
Because you're flipping the box,

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but you kind of snugged yourself
right into that box for a while.

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Yeah, and nothing of my
personality.

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That's that, you know, like
everyone, not everyone, I guess.

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Like many people, I was a
checklist person.

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And you mentioned earlier that
with our upbringings, we were

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taught that we needed to, you
know, perform very well.

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And so I thought I had no choice
but to go to college.

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If I could have chosen back then
my 17 year old, 18 year old

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self, I would want to do at that
time, I would have wanted to do

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hair.
But I thought there was no way

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you could do hair.
You know, you couldn't, you

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couldn't make any money doing
that.

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I would want to write at that
time, didn't think you could

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make money writing.
So go to college, check.

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I think I need to do something
after college.

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What will make money?
Well, my science grades were OK,

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but I didn't see myself going
that way, didn't see myself in

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business.
So by default it had to be law

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and went to law school.
I don't regret it, but I will

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tell you for a while I would
worked as a litigator for 14

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years and if there was a time
period when I drove to work, my

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theme song of the morning would
be I Will Survive by Gloria

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Gaynor.
So that tells you what a good

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fit it was, not.
Did you feel like you were

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helping?
Like what kind of investigation

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was it specifically?
I was a criminal prosecutor for

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about 7 years and then after
that I was a civil defense

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attorney for a large insurance
company defending their

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insurance in different areas
from personal lines to

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professional lines for another
seven years and went on my own

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for a couple of years doing
personal injury and a little

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family law.
Did I feel like I was helping

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and making a difference compared
to now?

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No way.
Not even close.

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I love that you say that because
that would be really hard for a

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lot of people to own.
Yeah.

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In fact, I'll have to tell you,
when I was practicing law, my

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dad was close to passed away.
I was 32 years old.

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And his first career, he was an
electrical engineer.

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He worked for Boeing, and he
switched careers and became a

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teacher to deaf students.
His pay, he told me, got cut

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down by 1/4 of what he was
making as an engineer.

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But that was what he was meant
to do.

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And at his funeral, he had died
suddenly.

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And so, you know, funerals
happened quickly.

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But because AOL was the e-mail
system at the time, I was able

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to contact some of his students
that he was in contact.

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And he'd been retired for a good
ten years at that point.

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Some of his students flew from
across the world.

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I mean, like, dropped everything
and came.

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So half the church was filled
with former deaf students and

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the hearing side of the church,
I didn't realize all these

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people would come from
everywhere around the world.

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And they were signing hymns and
it was just so beautiful that

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the hearing side was crying.
I looked over and I thought if I

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died tomorrow, the clients that
I'm helping or working for right

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now as an attorney would not
come to my funeral and look at

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what my dad left as a teacher.
And I remember thinking about

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that and the difference his life
was making versus my life at the

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time.
I love your ability to reflect.

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Have you always been able to
evaluate yourself?

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I was so insecure when I was
younger.

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My dad's a chemical engineer.
I thought I'd do that, but I got

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into like a certain level of
math and whatever, and I was

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like, no, my brain does not do
that at all.

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Like I can understand it.
I can physically do it.

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But when you asked me to explain
it, no, that's, that's not

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happening.
I wanted to to write.

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My mom is an artist and she
said, how do you make a living

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doing that?
It's like, what a horrible

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question to ask.
I don't know.

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So journalism was my thing, but
I always liked Andy Rooney, like

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back in the day, 60 Minutes,
which are really personal

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essays.
And my professors in DC were

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like, you don't write like a
journalist.

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I was like, why can't journalism
show humanity, still show two

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sides of the story, but have
humanity, which is what I think

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is lacking.
Yes, absolutely.

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This side of the story, this
side of the story, the human

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aspects of it and the truth as
much as we can find nowadays,

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and then share that.
But that disappeared.

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You were ahead of your time.
Always am because I'm an

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Aquarius.
I'm an Aquarius so I know we

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don't know your birthday.
Yeah, I know.

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It comes up so often in
conversation.

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It's right.
It's.

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Surprising thinking about that.
I was like, would you make one

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up?
If I was you, what would I do?

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Like do you know your?
Do you know which day you were

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found, I'm assuming?
Actually, I don't.

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I don't really.
Maybe I can find that if I've

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dug deep in some of the records,
but they gave me December 16th

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as a birthday, so 9 days before
Christmas.

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It's like I could have, you
know, could have been March.

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I could have competed with Saint
Patrick much easier, you know,

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But right there, right there, I.
Don't know, I have a January

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birthday and I can tell you like
a lot of my gifts coming up.

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Yeah, it's because everyone's
burned out.

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But that's funny.
I I can give you.

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I'm like, I'm thinking, you
know, Sagittarius, fiery,

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charismatic.
I think you're those things.

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It comes up so often in
conversation and you wouldn't

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realize because it's just
natural and it's a flow of

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conversation that comes up a
lot.

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It's our identity.
Part of it for sure, but like

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when I look at you, you're not
missing anything.

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I look at you and you own who
you are.

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You look amazingly comfortable
in it and you're stunning, like

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00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:35,720
inside and out.
You really are.

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You're compelling.
And I'm so grateful that there

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are women like that right now
when in the world there is so

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00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:45,680
much.
Not that, right?

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00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,720
There's that thing where you
have to sell and what sells and

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00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,040
what gets people's attention.
And then there's that

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00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,680
authenticity part.
And people sell authenticity

235
00:11:54,680 --> 00:11:58,320
without being authentic.
Yeah, isn't that crazy?

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00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,360
You know what what happened is?
I finally embrace my weird.

237
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:07,640
And the root of weird is WYRD is
how it's spelled, and it means

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00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:11,000
fate or destiny.
That's the root meaning of the

239
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,400
word weird.
And when you realize that

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00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,080
everything that makes you not
fit in and makes you look

241
00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:19,560
different than everyone else,
then you're like, oh gosh,

242
00:12:19,560 --> 00:12:22,120
that's my favorite or destiny.
And This is why I'm supposed to

243
00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:26,120
be here because I I have this
thing that someone else might

244
00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,040
not have.
It's weird because it's

245
00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,480
different.
But man, if I embrace it, this

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00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,120
is what I can offer the world.
Yeah, I've been called weird

247
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,680
most of my life and Corky.
And so like, I've been owning

248
00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:37,160
Corky.
I love that word Corky.

249
00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,320
Because I had people like my
TEDx experience wasn't the best,

250
00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:46,400
but but the people there were
like, you're so quirky and I was

251
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,800
like, I'm a grown up.
Why are you talking to me like

252
00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:50,160
that?
That was like the strangest.

253
00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:51,200
That's.
Hilarious.

254
00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,200
I was like the street.
I was like that you're trying to

255
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,160
put me down or like there's
everyone was always like, Holly,

256
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,840
you're so weird.
So when I moved to LA, for me, I

257
00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,360
was like, I'm so not weird.
I'm so not weird compared to

258
00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,200
them.
But like, now I'm kind of in the

259
00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,360
South and I'm a bit of an
outlier.

260
00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:10,080
But when I'm not fully me, I am
so unhappy.

261
00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:14,040
So I think that's part of what
you bring out in these

262
00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,720
conversations that you had at
your table for 51, right?

263
00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,640
Like, so did you start it
because you decided to get

264
00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:23,520
divorced?
Like, was that all part of your

265
00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:25,720
awakening?
How did you go to litigator to

266
00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,000
connection expert?
Fell into it, really.

267
00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,880
You know, I was a litigator.
I ended up staying home with my

268
00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,560
kids for a while, for a long
while.

269
00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:38,360
And then I fell into writing
between my 49th and 50th

270
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:42,240
birthday, I decided, well, what
do I do to make this big thing

271
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,760
special?
And I decided to sit down with

272
00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:48,520
50 women in my life that lived
in my area just to tell them

273
00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,640
what I learned from them.
And there were women that I knew

274
00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,080
very well or something I just
met briefly.

275
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:58,560
And I did this and I was over
sharing like I used to do.

276
00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:01,520
I do over share a little less
now, but was really over sharing

277
00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,520
social media.
People start asking me though,

278
00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,760
what gave you this idea?
And I start to challenge people

279
00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,600
to do this as well because I
noticed what a difference it

280
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:14,360
made to actually sit down with
someone and have them feel seen

281
00:14:14,680 --> 00:14:16,520
and share with them what I
learned, even if it was the

282
00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:21,160
smallest thing.
And from that built this career

283
00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,000
of writing.
Then wrote another book and

284
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,440
another book and I'm learning
how to write.

285
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:27,400
I would say read my last book
because it's better than the

286
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:31,120
ones before because I've become
more intentional about it and

287
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,160
really learning what my message
is.

288
00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,360
I started doing interviews like
we're doing here and found that

289
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,280
I really enjoy that piece of
this.

290
00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,320
And now I I speak and I've moved
into hosting retreats for women.

291
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:47,200
And that's really where my
heart, I find my heart really

292
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:51,280
like sings during these retreats
and be able to have that time,

293
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:55,360
this intimate space, really
working with a groups of five to

294
00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,520
10 women at a time.
That's really smart.

295
00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,120
I've done retreats and I, I
think small is the way to go

296
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,160
because then you, you get to
have that real experience of

297
00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,080
getting to know someone
intimately for a short amount of

298
00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,880
time sometimes and then a longer
perhaps conversation keeps going

299
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,920
after that.
You talk a lot about eye contact

300
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,160
and I love that because I do
that like I have my real, not

301
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,200
perfect Academy.
And for me, I talk about eye

302
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:24,040
contact a lot and what I often
ask women are similar questions

303
00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,000
to you.
Like I have them, when they

304
00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,560
come, it's because they feel
like they've lost themselves.

305
00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,040
Everything that used to define
them doesn't fit.

306
00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,640
Or they've been people pleasing
and defining themselves as to

307
00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:37,880
what was needed as opposed to
who they are.

308
00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:39,640
And there's like a balance
between that, right?

309
00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:43,120
Like life happens.
So I often ask them to ask a

310
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:47,960
family member and a friend, give
them 3 words that they would use

311
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,880
to describe them, and then would
those be words that they would

312
00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,760
ever use to describe themselves
to just show how either

313
00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:59,280
disconnected they've become or
how much of A persona they're

314
00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,280
living.
And the other thing I love to

315
00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,840
ask is notice where you look
when you're walking because a

316
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:09,320
lot of people will be looking at
the ground and not looking at

317
00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:11,880
people.
And so every time I see and

318
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,760
listen to you speak about eye
contact, I'm like, yes.

319
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,000
Yeah, You think of, you know,
talk about looking at the

320
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:19,560
ground.
We're looking at our devices,

321
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,000
we're looking down.
And when you think of animals in

322
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,120
the wild, the ones that are
hurt, that are injured, their

323
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,520
body language is, you know,
hunched over, it's down versus

324
00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,080
the ones that are the leaders.
You could just tell by the way

325
00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,520
these animals are walking.
They're walking hard forward.

326
00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:39,800
And it's so different.
And so I always remind these

327
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,120
women that I'm working with,
when you walk into the room,

328
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:45,320
think walking hard forward.
Never walk in looking at your

329
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,480
phone because you're walking and
as a wounded animal and there's

330
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:50,920
just something different with
the energy you're able to bring

331
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,400
when you you consciously
physically think of how you're

332
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,000
carrying yourself throughout the
day.

333
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,880
Heart forward versus head down.
I love.

334
00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,400
That I'll either look really up
or I'll look down, right?

335
00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:03,840
You're just like, what is that?
What is that?

336
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:05,480
What is that?
And I judge myself.

337
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:07,319
Like I take dance classes and
I'll record it.

338
00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:09,880
And I can tell when I don't know
something because I'm kind of

339
00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:11,440
looking down because I'm trying
to remember.

340
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:13,680
I don't know, like maybe there's
more memory in the front of my

341
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:15,160
head.
I'm like, come here, come here,

342
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:17,800
join me.
Come make my body move the way I

343
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:19,280
want it to.
What type of dance?

344
00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:23,400
Mondays are TAP classes.
I just started TAP.

345
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,920
That was so exciting.
I feel like like a 5 year old

346
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:27,680
girl just shuffling my that's
hard.

347
00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:30,400
It is.
I was like oh that works my

348
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:32,240
knees.
Duh of course it works my knees.

349
00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:36,800
Then I do AK pop dance class.
Wow, I know I but.

350
00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:40,400
It's so fun.
And then I'll do a drop in

351
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,760
class.
But I am, you know, firmly in my

352
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:44,840
middle age, so I learn a little
slower.

353
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,360
And so I always feel like if I
only had another week because we

354
00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:50,680
do a new thing every week.
It's like.

355
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:55,440
So good for the mind and body.
It is, and then I'm in a room

356
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:59,000
full of 20 year olds, right?
So you're just like, I wish I

357
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,920
could still move like that.
I wish I could still move, but

358
00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:03,200
there's no way I could not do
it.

359
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,040
I love.
It it like I feel you and I

360
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:07,920
remember part of your question
that you asked.

361
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:09,760
I had forgotten you asked about
the divorce.

362
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:15,360
So I've been married for 27
years and got divorced and moved

363
00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:19,760
to Dallas from Seattle with no
anger here, no friends or

364
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,080
relatives.
But part of my divorce happened

365
00:18:24,120 --> 00:18:26,760
because, well, it didn't happen
because of this.

366
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:30,480
But I had the strength to leave
a marriage that wasn't working

367
00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:34,000
because of my conversations with
these women around the US and

368
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:38,200
learning about their lives.
And so that gave me the strength

369
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:40,680
and the confidence that I could
do this on my own.

370
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:42,800
Because of course, if you've
been with someone that long,

371
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,320
you've grown up with them.
And my parents had passed away.

372
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,440
I was adopted as only.
So other than my two kids who

373
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,040
are still in their 20s, still
launching themselves, I really

374
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:57,200
don't have family.
But this woman I met in South

375
00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:01,600
Carolina, she said that her
husband, when they moved there,

376
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,440
asked her, Are you ready to
plant roots?

377
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,000
And when she did, that's when
her community started.

378
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,520
It was the first time in my life
I realized because I always saw

379
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,560
myself as kind of rootless given
my beginnings.

380
00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,840
I thought, wait, that doesn't
have to be my story.

381
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,120
I can have fruits and I can
choose where to plant them.

382
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,800
And I decided I could plant them
anywhere now.

383
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:29,000
And hello, Dallas.
I'm like, that is like a big

384
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,920
like the the change in climate
and the vibe is.

385
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:34,640
Vastly.
It's like moving to a different

386
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,480
country, the culture,
everything.

387
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,280
Of course, sure.
So how many years has it been

388
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,040
now that you've done that?
I moved here in September.

389
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:49,000
Oh, it's brand New Girl.
So I've married about 24 years.

390
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,280
I never get that right.
People think I'm weird that way,

391
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,440
but whatever.
Yeah, it gets hard to remember

392
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:57,440
after so long, but.
We were in LA and we had a

393
00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:01,280
conversation that when our
daughter was just a toddler so

394
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:04,600
we don't have an extended family
really that's exists whatever.

395
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,560
And so it's just like me and
him, and I didn't want anyone to

396
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,800
raise my child.
So with me, my one very

397
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,840
traditional value probably in
the world was like, I really

398
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:14,720
wanted to be a mom when I could
be a mom.

399
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,680
And I waited a really long time
to be 1.

400
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,360
But like living in LA and like
the reality of having a family

401
00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:27,000
there is it's a tough, right?
So we had that conversation of

402
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,400
do you want a life where we have
to work hard to get by or one we

403
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,880
can enjoy?
And then we said, let's try to

404
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:35,200
enjoy it.
And everyone's like, you're

405
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,560
crazy.
You don't leave where you're at.

406
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:42,160
And I was like, or you do right,
Like you do you just get up and

407
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:46,120
go.
Now we hit a whole lot of

408
00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:49,000
message, like it was not easy
moving across the country,

409
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,000
starting over.
And when I first moved here, I

410
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,680
felt like a jellyfish tossed in
the ocean.

411
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,000
I was like, I have no mountains
to ground me, right?

412
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,760
Like that I could see like
everything is kind of just

413
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,200
woods.
I'm a city girl.

414
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,960
Like what was I thinking?
And I think it took me like 9

415
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,960
months to kind of find some
people.

416
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,200
And I only found people because
I put my daughter in preschool a

417
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:13,760
little bit because we were so
alone.

418
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,040
I was like, I can't isolate this
toddler, right?

419
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,000
She's like three.
I have to have her play.

420
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:25,760
So like I I love that you were
doing this old badass woman.

421
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:27,960
It's been amazing.
And you know what happened is I

422
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,040
was laying a good life for so
long.

423
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:34,040
I mean, my marriage was good in
the sense that the lifestyle was

424
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:35,920
good, great community of
friends.

425
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,120
I still have that community of
friends in Seattle.

426
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,960
But I let a good life stop me
from a great life.

427
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,840
And I finally had the strength
to close the door.

428
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,240
And once I closed that door, I'm
not saying it was easy to do.

429
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,720
It's not easy to close the door
on 27 years, but once that door

430
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:57,000
was closed, doors have continued
to open for me over and over

431
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,760
again, and it's incredible.
So I always tell people, I ask,

432
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:02,760
are you letting a good life stop
you from a great life?

433
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:08,480
There's something about that
level of realizing that, OK, no

434
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,760
matter what, I've always been
taken care of.

435
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,560
And when you start to absorb
that, and I don't mean taking

436
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,320
care of like somebody's paying
for everything, but just like in

437
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:21,920
life in general, you know, as we
talked off camera, I'm a breast

438
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,760
cancer survivor, was still taken
care of.

439
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,320
I'm here today.
You know, different things have

440
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,480
happened just like they do in
all our lives, but still, OK,

441
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,680
still breathing, you know, so no
matter what life is thrown, I've

442
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,200
always been taken care of.
And once I really got that

443
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,840
concept, things didn't become as
scary.

444
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,400
I I love that I I want to tell
people because I share too much,

445
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,880
but I had just came from a see
I'll get emotional because I was

446
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:49,880
afraid.
I had a diagnostic mammogram

447
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:54,680
today just before actually came
home and to talk to Sherry is I

448
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:59,560
found multiple lumps and so I I
want women to take care of your

449
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,120
own health.
Like I am not a person with

450
00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:04,160
health insurance because I'm a
freelancer and my husband is as

451
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:05,840
well.
So it sometimes you make

452
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,640
choices, whatever, but it, it
matters.

453
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,040
It ended up everything is fine
and benign, but I haven't even

454
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,520
like breathe because my coping
mechanism is work hard.

455
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,960
And then like in two hours after
I'm done all the work I want to

456
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,480
do today, I'll probably just go
and then I'll go to tap class

457
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,840
and I'll be really happy.
But I, I hope that people take

458
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,040
the time to do the thing that's
uncomfortable for your health

459
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:29,360
too, because no one likes a
mammogram.

460
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:30,320
They're the worst things.
Ever.

461
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,200
And diagnostic mammograms are
something else you think of.

462
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,440
Regular mammogram is something
diagnostic mammograms are a

463
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,920
different beast.
And I'm so glad it turned out

464
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,720
well for you because I know part
of the whole process is

465
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,560
surprising, how long sometimes
the diagnostic process takes.

466
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:51,480
And no matter what you do, all
the self talk in your head, it's

467
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,720
in your head, it's always in
your head until you get to the

468
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,560
next step.
So I'm so glad the next step has

469
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:02,240
turned out fine for you.
Also fight because it took me a

470
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,040
while to get in.
Like, you know, that's the part

471
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,560
that's madding, but that's a
whole other.

472
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,400
Like Healthcare is different.
I want to like direct because

473
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,000
you are supportive, kind person
with like power.

474
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,040
And what I like about your
strength, it is like amazingly

475
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,480
feminine.
Also, when I work with people,

476
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,560
when I tell them to surrender to
their femininity, it doesn't

477
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,880
mean that you're weak or
whatever, but like there's this

478
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:33,000
power and our femininity that
men can't touch because there

479
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,200
are men.
And when you do, it is a light,

480
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,080
it's a beacon, it's strength.
There's just so much.

481
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,880
Your intuition comes into play a
lot more.

482
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,440
You begin to trust yourself and
listen to your instincts.

483
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,480
If you're at a transition point
in your life and you're

484
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,880
wondering, how do I go from
point A to point B?

485
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,640
I'm tired of being defined by
what other people think of me.

486
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,960
Read my book Real, not perfect.
How to become your happy,

487
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,600
authentic self.
It's a step by step guide to

488
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,680
help you reclaim your voice,
your passion and yourself worth.

489
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,560
Available at all booksellers and
in the links below.

490
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,560
I also want to give you a crown
for that because everywhere you

491
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,360
go, you're coming across the
same.

492
00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:18,000
And I can see like this
evolution and I can't wait to

493
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,520
watch like what you do more.
I'm going to maybe like be in

494
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,560
the book of 110.
But like, I love this idea of

495
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,400
friendships that you have as
well because friendship is

496
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,760
something personally I've
struggled with in my life.

497
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,480
Like you can be super intimate
and then it disappears.

498
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,280
And I had to learn much later in
my life that there are different

499
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,040
kinds of friends.
Do you talk about that or like

500
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,000
explain that in some of what you
do?

501
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,520
Yes, We've gotten to the point
where we put so much pressure on

502
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,800
what a friend should be and what
a friend needs to be.

503
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:53,080
The Webster's definition is
simply having mutual admiration

504
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:58,240
for another person, period.
And so if we think of a friend

505
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:02,520
like that, we've realized that's
a great entry point and we don't

506
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,640
have to put so much pressure on
ourselves, let alone someone

507
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,120
else, that we have to show up
for everything and we have to

508
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,240
act correctly.
And our house has to look nice

509
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,560
and we have to buy presents for
a friend.

510
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,120
And it's expensive to have a
friend.

511
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,840
And we have to go to everything
together and invite every, every

512
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,200
lack of that pressure, it makes
friendships so much easier.

513
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,080
And also understanding
friendships ebb and flow.

514
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,080
We focus so much on teaching our
kids how to make friends that

515
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,000
when friendships break up, we
don't know how to break them up.

516
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,120
We feel terrible about break up.
People want to get to the drama,

517
00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:39,840
but it's a natural flow of life
because we all grow and change

518
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,720
together.
Sometimes friends come back

519
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,320
together, sometimes they go
away.

520
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:48,040
And I simply think we put too
much pressure on what a friend

521
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:52,320
needs to be rather than really
looking at that person and

522
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,520
appreciate what a friendship
becomes.

523
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:56,560
I love that.
So you're like looking at their

524
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,480
humanity?
Yeah, and it was interesting

525
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,640
when I traveled across the US
and I would contact these women,

526
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,520
especially women that I
absolutely had no anchor to or

527
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,720
no one referred me to.
It's like a cold call.

528
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,200
Hey, I'm this woman from
Seattle.

529
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,400
Let's have lunch.
And I thought the objection

530
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,800
would be because I explained I'm
going to write a book about

531
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:16,360
this.
I'm going to try to get some

532
00:27:16,360 --> 00:27:18,000
media.
So there may be some of that.

533
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,600
There'll be waivers for you to
sign.

534
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,920
I thought the objection would
be, I'm sorry, I'm a private

535
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:24,000
person.
Thank you.

536
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,320
Go on your way.
But the only thing that's came

537
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,440
up more than once was I don't
know if I'm interesting enough

538
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:35,040
for you.
And it was I was just a regular

539
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,440
person wanting to have this
experience.

540
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,760
And that made me think.
Many of us are walking into

541
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,080
rooms thinking we're not good
enough for other people to show

542
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,520
ourselves that we're putting up
these Shields before we could

543
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,680
even let connection happen.
What's your favorite way of like

544
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:56,320
initiating a connection now?
Well, now I, you know, it's so

545
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,320
easy now.
So I'm just moving to Dallas.

546
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,560
I always say, Hey, I just moved
here.

547
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,440
How long have you been here?
Are you from Dallas originally?

548
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,760
And people then are, you know,
we have a common thing to talk

549
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:08,360
about.
They either want to share with

550
00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:11,240
me what their favorite
restaurant is, ask me what

551
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,160
caused me to move here.
But you could do that anywhere.

552
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,800
If somebody that's been in the
same town for a long time, they

553
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,360
could say, hey, I, I'm, you
know, I'm a lifelong resident of

554
00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:21,200
Seattle.
Did you move here or did you

555
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,400
grow up here as well?
I think that's a great starter.

556
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,680
It's always worked for me.
I love that I moved as a junior

557
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,640
in high school from a smaller
school to a school that was

558
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,120
really big.
So the school that I originated

559
00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:36,440
in, if someone showed up who was
new, everyone wanted to meet

560
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,280
them, right?
When I moved, no one cared.

561
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,800
Like when I moved to school, the
school was so big that I was

562
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,160
like just faceless basically,
right?

563
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,000
And I was like, oh Dang, this is
hard.

564
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:52,240
So I learned that the hardest
word is just hello, that if you

565
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,560
say hello, more times than not,
people will respond.

566
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,000
And then that really served me,
like when I went to college and

567
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,400
the world because walking into a
room and not really knowing

568
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,600
anyone and being the weird one,
right?

569
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,840
It's kind of amazing.
I met one of my dearest friends.

570
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:11,480
She actually, I'm going to see
BTS with her.

571
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:17,120
Yeah, I walked into a mommy
group, which is so not my thing,

572
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,480
but I was like, I need to meet
some new people.

573
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:23,200
Like I was too insulary because
I'm an introvert.

574
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,760
So like, if I get a loan and I
start writing, then I'm like in

575
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,600
this world too much my own
private Idaho.

576
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,720
And I was like, well, I'll just
go, I'll go for 15 minutes.

577
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,280
If it's awful, I can just leave
and like, not a big deal.

578
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,840
And I went in very Holly.
I was in like I, I really love

579
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,320
that bright green love.
That color.

580
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,400
So I was in pants that that
color and I had AT shirt on and

581
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,680
I don't really know.
This is like I love dressing up

582
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,160
so that I'm wearing this is
weird anyway, but it's like my

583
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,680
eat, sleep K drama repeat
T-shirt.

584
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,160
I forget where I was coming from
that I was dressed like that,

585
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,360
but I really just thought I was
going to duck in and duck out.

586
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,680
And I walk in and this
statuesque, gorgeous woman is

587
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,760
standing there and she's in like
a leopard dress, like stunning.

588
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,080
And I walk in and she goes, she
raises an eyebrow and she just

589
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,240
gives me like the little K drama
heart.

590
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,240
Like the little before everyone
was doing it.

591
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,640
And then I did it back.
She's like, my husband told me I

592
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:23,680
can talk about beating us, but
Oh my God, I was like, so

593
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,280
anyway, I made a friend that way
and I did duck out because it

594
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,000
wasn't really my thing.
But you never know it.

595
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,040
Just one person, one person, one
question makes a huge

596
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,720
difference.
So like, what do you think that

597
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:37,720
you've been charged with right
now?

598
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:43,160
I feel like you have your own
mission and you are full going

599
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,280
for it.
So did it just like just keep

600
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:50,520
one step, one door open after
the other because writing a book

601
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,280
is hard.
I don't know, like I know a lot

602
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,280
of our listeners are writers.
So I mean, I've written a bunch.

603
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,880
I got to and edits over there.
But like finishing it, it's a

604
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,320
big deal.
Getting editing, publishing,

605
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,320
doing all of this publicity that
you're doing.

606
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:06,880
I don't even know how you have
the energy.

607
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,920
Tell me how you're keep going.
OK, it's interesting because I

608
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:15,240
could work from like 6:00 AM
till midnight and it doesn't

609
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,640
feel like work.
I mean, it feels like work, but

610
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:18,720
it doesn't feel like work,
right?

611
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,720
I'm creating it.
It feels so aligned with me now.

612
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,920
I don't, I'm trying really hard
not to do that because I also

613
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,560
realize and having relationships
with people are important to me.

614
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,800
So I try to stop at 6:00 PM
every night and just go. 5:50 is

615
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,240
actually why I try to do
sometimes if I don't have

616
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,040
anything, any event, I'm
impressed.

617
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,840
I'm impressed.
I do have an event, I say I'll

618
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,360
stop, but otherwise, and I did,
I did a comparison chart to see

619
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,360
what's really important in my
life and relationships

620
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,640
especially especially a new
romantic one came up high.

621
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,800
So I realized I need to make
time and invest in what is

622
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:57,240
important to me in the long run.
But this work, it just feels so

623
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:01,240
mined and it is for the first
time in my life that I feel like

624
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,280
I'm doing what I'm meant to do.
And in college, I wanted for,

625
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,560
you know, when I started, I kind
of wanted to be a writer.

626
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,280
I wanted to be the next Connie
Chung.

627
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,200
I didn't have the confidence to
be Connie Chung.

628
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,840
I had a teacher that really put
red marks all over.

629
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,800
My first college creative
writing paper destroyed my

630
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,680
confidence and also told you
can't make money as a writer,

631
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,720
and I majored in psychology.
Fast forward, I'm doing kind of

632
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,200
all those three things in this
career that's been sort of

633
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,960
pushed towards me without much
thought.

634
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,040
So that just to me means that
this was this is what I'm

635
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,440
supposed to do.
I love that.

636
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,360
Do you ever have that feeling of
I'm a little older than you, but

637
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,280
we're in we're in our middle age
track right where there I I.

638
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:48,880
Would doubt that you're older
than.

639
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,680
I am older than you do.
You know that for a fact.

640
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,440
Yeah, you do.
I'm 57.

641
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,760
Well.
I turned 57 in a couple months,

642
00:32:57,760 --> 00:32:59,720
come on.
No, no.

643
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:05,800
No, I turned 57 later this year.
So high school, class of 8887,

644
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,000
OK, I was, I was older for my
year.

645
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:10,600
You were young.
I was older for my year too.

646
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:11,280
Are you?
Older.

647
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:15,000
Yeah, see all these fun things,
but I would have liked you in

648
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,840
high school too.
Yeah, but I think like what I

649
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,360
was struggling with is that I'm
always me.

650
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,640
And I think if you meet me,
you'll be like, Oh no, she's not

651
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:25,920
faking that.
That is like her, right?

652
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,920
Like I let people, I like to say
I'm a little bit Moody, that I

653
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:30,720
know I'm having an emotional
day.

654
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,320
I'll just let the person know
because I'll probably retreat a

655
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,240
little bit because I need to
take care of myself.

656
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,640
And other times I'm super
gregarious and I was like,

657
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,400
you're such an extrovert.
I'm like, no, I'm using all my

658
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,160
words right now.
And then I'm not going to talk

659
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,840
for like 7 hours.
I'm going to go sit and read or

660
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,080
be in my hole and just like
decompress.

661
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,240
That's like what I've learned
about myself as I've aged.

662
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,400
But I found out when I realized
that I was looking at the

663
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:58,480
ground, right, that I had become
so and so's mother or so and

664
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,120
so's wife.
And I was like, well, that like,

665
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,400
yeah, those are choices I made
and I I liked them.

666
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:11,239
And I'm still me.
And what does this whole little

667
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,320
bit of invisibility that I'm
feeling now is different than

668
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,639
just becoming mom, like, right,
I went from being ATV producer,

669
00:34:18,639 --> 00:34:21,840
telling 250 people what to do
every day to being home with an

670
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,120
infant that screamed that I
couldn't make better, right?

671
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,639
That was, oh, that was an ego
slap, right?

672
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,480
But now I'm also in this space
and what's why I also really

673
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,480
admire and I'm so glad that
you're speaking.

674
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,960
And again, because I mean, like,
I do fall in love with

675
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:41,880
everybody, but just how you care
Like me, I was like the other

676
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,000
day, I was like, oh, I get to
talk to Sherry on social media.

677
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:49,639
I was like, I think like showing
up as we are with our

678
00:34:49,639 --> 00:34:54,960
personalities matters.
To start erasing the

679
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,280
invisibility of what word are we
using for mature women?

680
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,840
Because mature women just sounds
like What is that?

681
00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:04,640
That's not my word.
Yeah, and I really don't like

682
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,320
the term grey divorce.
Can we say something different

683
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,320
than Grey Divorce?
I don't know, sexy cougar woman

684
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,640
I don't have, I don't know,
We're both writers.

685
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,840
Let's come up with a better.
I mean, I keep seeing the memes

686
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:20,720
of like, your 50s are the
adolescent of old age and like

687
00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:22,760
that.
That kind of works for me, but

688
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,840
it's like that's not exciting.
No.

689
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,320
Well, it's interesting because
we will have friends that are

690
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,120
younger.
My parents did not have friends

691
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:36,120
that were younger, and I could
easily hang out with a group of

692
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:40,960
women that are in their early
30s or, you know, even my my

693
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,240
daughter's friends or something
in their 20s.

694
00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:45,400
I mean, they might not want me
there all night.

695
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:50,360
But yeah, I feel like our
generation, we're able to cross

696
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:54,480
generations a lot easier than
our parents generations were.

697
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:59,320
And I met this woman who was 93
in Arizona, and of course, all

698
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,640
of her friends were younger, but
she was steady on her feet and

699
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,840
really sharp and even now
constantly making friends.

700
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:10,280
I thought, oh, that's the secret
of getting older, is that you

701
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,120
know you live long enough to
make more friends.

702
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,120
I love that.
Yeah, and that's just, and then

703
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,400
when you look at her, that gives
us another 40 years, 30

704
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:20,880
something.
Years, you know to.

705
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,040
Make more So it's all relative,
right?

706
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,200
It's all relative what we have
going.

707
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,120
In my last retreat, I had a
woman in her early 70s and she

708
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,520
came on my retreat because she
said something told me inside to

709
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,080
come on this retreat because I
know I have to keep curious and

710
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,680
be around people who might think
differently than me.

711
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,080
I thought, wow, that's exactly
how I want to continue to think

712
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,200
as I get older.
And she had seen older, you

713
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,800
know, other than physically,
maybe a little bit, but other

714
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,840
than that, mentally, emotionally
right there and offered so much

715
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,520
substance to us.
Yeah, I think curiosity is what

716
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,720
I say is like one of my driving
forces in life.

717
00:36:55,800 --> 00:37:00,160
It's just what keeps me going.
I can't imagine just being like,

718
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,920
satisfied.
Yeah, I mean, then what do you

719
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,040
do, right?
Is there like a commonality that

720
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,720
you've seen in your retreats
with the women who come like a a

721
00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:11,720
singular thing that they all
share?

722
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,160
There's a synergy.
So I always know that the right

723
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:19,000
people and that's part of being
small because man, they leave

724
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:23,280
and there's this bond that's
been created that they don't

725
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,680
want to leave each other.
And just like when I traveled to

726
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,120
all of the states originally, I
said, OK, I'm going to find some

727
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,600
common thing with everybody.
But as I traveled what I

728
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:38,880
realized is it felt like it was
1 teacher, just a voice and the

729
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:44,520
appearance changed but the
conversation seemed to be so

730
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,280
connected as we went through.
And granted, part of it was I

731
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,920
was the common denominator, but
I swear I meet one person.

732
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,920
They would tell me the story of
like I wouldn't know that they

733
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,000
were adopted, but they would
tell me a story that they were

734
00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:00,080
adopted and they found their
birth father through the birth

735
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,880
father's sister.
Next day I meet someone else.

736
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,240
They found their birth father
through their birth father's

737
00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:07,440
sister.
I mean, it was just or somebody

738
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,560
would say something.
Next day, another person would

739
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:13,440
say another proverb that relate
to the night before.

740
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:18,080
So there was this beautiful
pattern or synergy that I sought

741
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,640
just amongst us as human beings.
I love that.

742
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,880
I also, what I found fascinating
about your writing is your

743
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,520
ability.
And I was like, oh, I wonder if

744
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,400
this is the lawyer part of you
is your ability to, like, sum up

745
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,040
the interactions.
Yeah, I tried to.

746
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,200
You know, it's interesting
because I'm doing a fifth book.

747
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:36,640
I'm coming up with a fifth book
in February.

748
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,360
It'll be my first book that I'm
writing on my own, and it's not

749
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,680
about anyone else, so I don't
have to be careful not to, you

750
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,840
know, and the way I'm doing it.
But part of that is my own

751
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:52,000
becoming because I am now
realizing this is a process.

752
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:53,880
That's my first book, that I'm
enough.

753
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,960
And yeah, I lead all these
things and and speak.

754
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,760
But there's a piece of me that I
didn't realize how this year

755
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:04,840
that was saying I need other
people to make this more

756
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:06,480
interesting.
I need something else.

757
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,960
And I had a person who's
somewhat of a mentor.

758
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:12,800
She's done other retreats.
And I was telling her about

759
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:14,720
these vendors I want to bring
in.

760
00:39:14,720 --> 00:39:16,280
And she said, well, Sherry, just
wait.

761
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,400
That's fine if you do that.
But I understand that you're

762
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,800
enough.
You've been there as a leader is

763
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,960
enough.
And that's just really sad with

764
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:26,320
me.
I've been thinking about them.

765
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,600
I even now as I create my next
one.

766
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:32,120
OK, confidence you're enough.
You're you're here.

767
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,200
How many days are your retreats
3. 3.

768
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,480
That's a lot of work.
I've done retreats.

769
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:41,240
I always do it with someone else
as well.

770
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:45,360
It's like I need someone,
someone is back up because

771
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:46,680
again, I have to.
Go yeah, it's nice.

772
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,040
And I did bring in I did bring
in people to I close the days I

773
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,120
had a tea ceremony Reiki
practitioner sound back that I

774
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,200
can't do.
I'm not trained to do that.

775
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,280
But the actual workshopping
pieces they were me.

776
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:03,000
And I don't know that I would
have quite got there in the way

777
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,680
I did if she hadn't just said
that one thing or asked me that

778
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:08,320
one question.
You know that.

779
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,360
Realize you're enough.
I love that you keep getting

780
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,600
these messages.
Yeah, I try.

781
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,440
Yeah, I might.
I had my first true little

782
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,400
gossip here.
I had my first argument with my

783
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,400
new boyfriend a little while
ago, and he asked me a question.

784
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,520
Because The thing is, he was
able to open up a conversation,

785
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:27,640
which I appreciate, and open up
the space for us.

786
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,240
But he said, well, you know, is
this something, What do you

787
00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:32,520
think of this?
Basically, what's what's going

788
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,120
to happen from this?
And all I could say is all I

789
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:39,080
know is I keep trying to learn.
I keep trying to learn about

790
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,640
myself and learn how to do
things differently.

791
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,600
And so that's my goal.
So if I, you know, even as a

792
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:49,200
leader, when somebody says
something like, oh, now shoots,

793
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:50,680
I wasn't thinking that.
OK.

794
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,000
And then now let me pass this on
to you and ask you this

795
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,280
question.
You know, do you realize you're

796
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,960
enough?
I love that I think like when my

797
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,880
mom comes to visit, my marriage
is hard for her because we're

798
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:08,080
super honest because my dad was
such a liar.

799
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,080
I can't tolerate lies like at
all.

800
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,640
There's such a betrayal for me
because if you're lying about

801
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:15,200
this, what else are you lying
about?

802
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,680
And I don't mean like, you know,
like someone lives in outfit and

803
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,360
you're not going to be rude.
I'm not talking about that.

804
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,200
I mean like a significant
whatever.

805
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:28,680
I mean, it could be anything.
So like for us, we are able to

806
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:33,400
say now like, because I was the
most ridiculous people pleaser,

807
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,360
because daughter of an
alcoholic, I was like, let me

808
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:36,760
make everything better for
everybody.

809
00:41:37,240 --> 00:41:39,560
And then I was like, oh, I'm
really unhappy.

810
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,240
This isn't working.
What am I feeling?

811
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,520
And am I allowed to say that out
loud?

812
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:48,560
Oh my, like, learning to be able
to articulate how I actually

813
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,400
felt and know that it wasn't
going to be used as a weapon was

814
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:57,720
like a very big turning point.
And my mother is much more of, I

815
00:41:57,720 --> 00:42:00,600
would say like a lady.
So it's much more like, I'll get

816
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,120
to the point and like, can you
just tell me the point?

817
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,360
Because I'm going to insert all
sorts of anxiety in there if you

818
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:10,280
just don't tell me what's up.
So are you direct like that as

819
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:15,080
well or are you careful?
I've learned to be and I'm

820
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,880
learning to be outside of
personal relationships.

821
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:20,920
I believe I'm pretty direct.
It's interesting, the personal

822
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:27,360
relationships, I am learning to
create more, not boundaries, but

823
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:31,280
be more direct like that.
And you know, you mentioned

824
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:35,560
alcohol and that was an issue
with the demise of my marriage.

825
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,160
And there is no with that
disease.

826
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,440
I've learned so much.
There is that dishonesty that's

827
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,600
there because there's that
hiding of the disease and it

828
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,800
just keeps on feeding and
feeding, feeding and spiraling.

829
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,000
And I didn't realize, because I
consider myself a strong person,

830
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,160
that I was codependent in that
relationship.

831
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:56,640
And I didn't understand what
codependent meant.

832
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:58,680
And it didn't mean that I was
weak.

833
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:00,880
And then I was making this thing
work, right?

834
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:05,440
And so I've learned part of that
was not speaking up when I

835
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:09,880
needed to.
And so I've really been aware of

836
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:13,240
that now.
And it is that that when you

837
00:43:13,240 --> 00:43:16,240
describe the type of
relationship you have, I believe

838
00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:20,160
that's what I'm creating and
moving towards something where I

839
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,360
could say, hey, that's on you,
that's not me.

840
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,680
You know, the thing you're
complaining about, that's

841
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:27,600
actually think about that.
That's my personality.

842
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,160
But that, that's your issue,
right?

843
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,240
You know, I'm not going to be
not polite, but let's look at

844
00:43:33,240 --> 00:43:35,880
where that comes from.
Those are adult conversations.

845
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,840
I think that's also part of
what's missing in friendships

846
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,560
and in the world because people
are so busy.

847
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,960
This is what it should be, or
this is how I should look or

848
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,840
whatever.
And and beyond like the trauma

849
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,280
bonding that I think is
everywhere on the Internet, like

850
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,560
everyone's screaming about their
pain.

851
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:59,560
OK, you've identified it now
adult it figure it out like is

852
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:01,840
this really the cause?
Is there some other thing?

853
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:03,120
Is this the best way to handle
it?

854
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:06,440
There's a little bit more
nuanced to it than just like

855
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,200
being blunt, right?
I'm not saying be blunt, people,

856
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:10,880
because that could that could be
rude.

857
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,960
And you should also know your
time and place that that plays

858
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:15,640
into it.
But yeah, I don't know.

859
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,200
That's fascinating to me.
So your next book is coming out.

860
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,440
Do you already have your pub?
Yeah, it's coming out in

861
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,960
February 2027.
It's going to be called Flip the

862
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:24,920
Box.
I've gotten everything now under

863
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,840
the Flip the Box messaging, and
it's about human connection.

864
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:32,560
It's about connecting to self,
career, and community.

865
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,840
And it's also focused on
teaching people how to find that

866
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,440
connection, whether it's in work
with their teams, with their

867
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,920
clients, their stakeholders, or
in interpersonal relationship.

868
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,200
So I appreciate you coming and
talking with us.

869
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,360
You are an amazing guest.
I like to ask every guest to

870
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,240
wrap up.
If you came with a warning

871
00:44:49,240 --> 00:44:52,000
label, what would it be?
My warning label would be

872
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,520
warning fast moving train.
One of my favorite sayings that

873
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:57,400
comes to the format.
The question is, if today with

874
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,680
the last day of your life, would
you be doing what you're doing

875
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,680
now?
And I asked myself that quite

876
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:06,320
often.
And so when I have an idea if it

877
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:10,160
feels right, I go for it.
And I start ugly because it's so

878
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,680
much easier to make ugly pretty
than perfect better.

879
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,680
So a lot of times you feel like,
wow, you're just doing it, doing

880
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:17,840
it, doing it.
I'm like wow, you know, time is

881
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:20,280
short and I want it.
This speaks to me.

882
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,080
So warning, fast moving train
all.

883
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:23,920
Right.
I'm joining your train because

884
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,200
I've made some big decisions.
Last week I was like Oh my God,

885
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:30,960
what did I just say yes to in my
head but more.

886
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:32,400
Awesome.
It's a great ride.

887
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:34,320
It's a great ride and we're so
young still.

888
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,680
We got like, you know, 50 more
years of 50.

889
00:45:37,720 --> 00:45:39,600
Let's go, 50.
Let's go, babe.

890
00:45:39,720 --> 00:45:41,800
Anyway, there you.
Go thanks everyone for listening

891
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,040
to the Holly Hughes podcast.
Where can they find you?

892
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:45,960
Where can you want everyone to
go get your books?

893
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:50,400
Amazon is good.
My website I recently changed

894
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:52,640
it.
It's now just Sheri lead.com.

895
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:57,640
SHARILEID as in David?
Awesome.

896
00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:58,520
Thank you so much.