Get a Unigrip: Killcode Drummer Rob Noxious Talks About Growing Up in LA, Playing Drums in Front of 60,000 People, and Accidental Entrepreneurship

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So welcome to the Holly Hughes
podcast.

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Today I have the one the only
rock God Rob Obnoxious of Kill

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Code and we are going to talk
all things long term rock'n'roll

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drummer career.
So thanks Rob for being on my

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show.
Of course, thank you for asking

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me.
I'm really happy to be here.

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I mean, I'm excited.
I'm excited.

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I think like we should tell
people that like we knew each

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other, like we grew up on the
same street from single digits.

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Yes, we sure did.
Like maybe 5 houses away or

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something like that.
My my best friend Johnny

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Esposito is really close with
your family and live right

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across the street.
So yes, we go way back.

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Yeah, I mean, that brings me to
my first image of you.

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Like besides being you always
had swag.

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Like even as a little kid you
like had swag.

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You were just like born with it.
What do they call it now, Riz?

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Whatever.
I'm I'm old.

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So I don't know either.
I don't know what the kids call

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it these days and I never would
have really been conscious of

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that.
But thank you, I guess.

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Really.
Yeah.

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Like, I know you, I don't my, my
idea of you is so different than

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your idea of you.
But I remember like the first

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time that I was aware that you
played music, that you were a

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drummer is like when you all
like, dressed up like Kiss.

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Oh, wow.
Yeah.

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Like our parents used to have
parties and stuff and we would.

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We would.
Yeah, I remember that vaguely.

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Sure.
I mean that.

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That's funny.
I mean, I also.

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I would guess you'd have to
remember I played in the school

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band and see me up there with
the big bench drum or something

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like that.
I do remember the KISS things,

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yes.
That was pretty funny.

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Yeah, that was pretty funny.
And we used to scream car

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because we played tennis in the
middle of the street or.

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Whatever.
We we played everything in the

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middle of the street.
Yeah, it's when Oaks Dr. Baby,

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that was a really great place to
grow up.

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It is you.
OK.

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So I don't want to jump ahead.
I want to kind of go

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chronologically with you.
So I can't remember a time you

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weren't a musician.
When did you actually start

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playing drums?
I'm going to say somewhere

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around 2nd grade when you
everybody has to, like if you

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want to be in a school band and
whatnot, you have to pick an

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instrument.
I had picked drums.

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I was studying at that point
with Mr. Colabello at Fort

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Salonga Elementary School was,
by the way.

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I see him still all the time, if
you remember.

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Yeah, he's still not in town,
but like, I go to lunch with him

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here and there.
Great guy.

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One of my, you know, one of the
main reasons I excelled in in

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music, let alone drums, is
because I had such great

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teachers and he was the we'll
get into that later.

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I mean, he was the foundation of
that.

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You know, he directed me to the
next, you know, private teacher,

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whatever.
But I mean, I was playing guitar

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as well and I was taking lessons
from a guy up the road on Twin

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Oaks Drive, but more up towards
like where Tommy McCabe lives,

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if you remember and.
With like Section 3 section.

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Three, yeah, whatever it was,
but it was right by Heather

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Drive, if you remember that.
But yeah, so I was pretty damn

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good at that as well.
And I do remember both of them

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ironically at the same time.
And I again, I, we were in

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elementary school, they both, I
run and they didn't know each

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other, but they both came to me
and they said, you know, you're

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really, really good at both.
You know, you should seriously

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pick one that you just
concentrate on and kick ass and

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focus on entirely.
It doesn't mean you can't do the

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other as fun and, and whatever.
And honestly, you bring up Kiss

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like I picked drums because I
thought Peter Criss, the drummer

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of Kiss, was the coolest guy in
the in the band.

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So I was like, all right, I'll,
I'll, I'll go with, with drums.

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And, and that's when I just
focused mainly on drums always

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and still do play guitar pretty
well actually.

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Yeah.
Enough to write music and, and

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help with things like that.
With, with a lot of the bands I

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work with in their arrangements
and stuff like that.

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I can, it's mainly by ear at
this point, but I'm pretty damn

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good at it.
But still, I'm I'm a drummer,

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you know, I'm better at drums,
that's for sure.

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Yeah, I was out to dinner the
other night and I could tell

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there was like a couple on a
first date and the guy was

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clearly a drummer because his
feet were moving at different

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rhythms and his hand was
twitching.

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I was like, oh, he's nervous,
but that guy's a drummer.

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Yeah, Well, that's a, it's a,
it's a habit.

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I don't do it as much, but even
through elementary school,

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junior high, high school, I
would like you, you can

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literally practice as a drummer
sitting at a desk because it's

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all coordination.
You know, they call it

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independence.
You got two hands, you got 3,

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two feet and you want to do 4
different things at one time.

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So that's what they call
independence.

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But like you can practice all
that stuff sitting at a desk.

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So used to drive my teachers
crazy because that's what I was

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doing all day.
No doubt.

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Do you think you could actually
teach someone that if they have

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no rhythm?
Absolutely.

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I've, I mean, look, I've taught
little kids that you don't know

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if they have rhythm yet or not.
First thing is finding if

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they're really interested
because you know, you don't want

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their parents spending money if
they're not really interested.

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And you can tell within the
first three lessons if they go

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home and, and they learn what
they're doing.

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But nowadays, unlike how I was
taught, well, maybe not unlike,

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I really only know how to teach
the way I was.

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And again, Tom Colabello was
amazing.

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So like you would learn how to
read music, real simple stuff at

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first.
And he would always intertwine

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it like to the drum set.
Again, remember we're learning

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on a snare drum and, and, and
for starts.

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But he would always take those
quarter notes, which is the

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simplest of things.
And then the 8th notes is the

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next thing.
And he would find a popular song

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and he would write it out and
say sit at the drum set, do

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those quarter notes on your
foot, do this on your snare,

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blah, blah, blah.
Next thing you know, you're

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playing like Led Zeppelin and
you're like, holy shit, I'm

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really good at this.
And it gets the kid, especially

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me.
It gets you very intrigued.

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So you want to, you want to
practice?

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You want Excel?
Because I'm already playing.

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It gave you the win.
It gave you the win.

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Right, So Fast forward down the
road, like the reason I can do

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some of the things I do today,
which like show up and play with

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people that I don't know and and
just know a million songs.

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It's because I can see it all on
paper in my head and it and it

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was all based on Mrs. Bittner
and stuff like that.

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It's just really.
You can see it in your head.

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As it's like I mean I I can.
Like it's up there.

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Yeah, like I can read charts,
but like, I and you could write

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them out and I could use them,
but I don't, you know, I get

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caught.
Like I'll get calls these days

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to fill in for a lot of cover
bands.

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Like I was telling you when we
spoke.

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And, you know, it doesn't matter
what reputation I have at this

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point, which is like, this guy
can show up and do it.

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They can't believe that you can
until you do it.

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And I mean, I know thousands of
songs, you know, just from

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driving around with our parents
in the car and listening to all

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that stuff we did growing up.
Yeah.

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Like, that's why I say I can see
it on paper because in my head,

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because if I if I can't
understand something, that's

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when I'll have to go to YouTube
or something.

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And, and but most of it all
flows.

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It's all pop music and it's it's
structured simple enough that

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like if you know the theory it's
a rock beat or it's a disco beat

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and you know the difference of
those.

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It's really just first chorus,
just that doesn't tempo and

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that's it.
You just made me think, what was

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that movie about the drummer?
And it was a jazz beat.

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It was like a it.
Wasn't it came out not too long

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ago?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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What the hell was it called?
Great movie.

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Yeah.
I should have looked that.

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I can't believe.
That one of my favorite moves.

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What the hell was it called?
Yeah.

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But again, he basically abused
the crap.

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Yes, yes, the teacher was.
The teacher was like a drill

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Sergeant.
What the hell was it called?

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I've seen it in a million.
Times find it, I'm going to look

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because drumming movie.
Oh my God.

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It's funny.
I'm upset.

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Me.
I met that, that gentleman, the

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actor, the teacher at an airport
once when we were flying to

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Mexico.
He was on the same flight.

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Whiplash.
Whiplash.

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Exactly.
Great movie.

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Were you ever in an environment
like that?

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Like so you're pretty laid back.
You know, growing up around you,

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I would say you were always
popular, right?

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Easy laid back, had your swag
right like that was like what I

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like saw of you.
You never seemed unsure, but the

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other day you like even said
that you didn't feel any of

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that.
Well.

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You didn't always feel like you
fit in either.

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Yeah, well, see, so I was also
like an athlete, if you

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remember.
I'm like, it was pretty easy.

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I remember football.
It was very easy for me to get

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through the high school thing.
I'm like a lot of people, you'll

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always hear the stereotypical
bullies and this, that thing.

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I had an older brother and I had
an older sister.

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Jeannie wasn't too far off.
She was only three years older

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than me and everybody knew I,
you know, basically older

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brothers stuff.
You know, they don't nobody mess

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with me, so I can't.
It wasn't an uncomfortable thing

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like people picked on me.
But like when we started getting

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into high school and I started
dating like Carrie, you know,

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all the all the jocks and stuff,
you know, hated the fact that I

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was, you know, and I was a good
enough athlete, somebody.

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Still talking about it.
There's someone still talking

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about it.
I'm like, let it go, man.

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It was high school.
Oh yeah, and they still do, you

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know.
But anyway, I guess the point

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I'm making is I was always
accepted with the with the

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athletic thing and then I had my
brothers and sisters, so nobody

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picked on me, even if they just
were jealous of some for some

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reason.
But as far as a musician goes, I

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just never felt accepted in this
town because everybody just

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feels like, you know, you're not
going to go anywhere with it.

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I mean, don't get me wrong, you
knew my parents.

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My parents were very supportive,
but even my mom, who's the most

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supportive one at all, even with
my hair and in like high school

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and stuff, she always make me
have at least that stupid, you

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know, like mullet cut where at
least the top of it was kind of

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short and she would never let.
And she's like, you're not

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playing on stages yet.
So I don't want to hear it

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because you got to kind of have
like a short hair.

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And my father was more like,
yeah, short hair, short hair,

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you know what I mean?
But at the end of the day, they

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always really supported what
they did.

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And after high school, they sent
me, you know, I went to, I went

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to one year of Community College
at Suffolk out here and I was a

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music major.
I had one English class and all

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music classes and I chose not to
even go to English and got an

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incomplete.
So I was really a part time

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student.
But I found this school in

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Hollywood that was just, it was
a complete drum school.

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It was a tech school.
And you went there and, like,

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the teachers there were like,
very famous and it was obvious,

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00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:10,840
like, yeah, I want to go there.
So even my father at that point,

225
00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:15,000
he's like, OK, it's a year
school, there's no dorms, we'll

226
00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,120
pay your rent, we'll get you out
there, whatever.

227
00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,640
But after that year, you're on
your own if you want to stay

228
00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,480
there or you come home and you
get a real job, whatever.

229
00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,240
So obviously, I had within a
year, met enough people.

230
00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:30,040
I started getting worked, like
in the film industry and TV

231
00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:32,280
industry and stuff at the
studios in Hollywood.

232
00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:34,480
And again, that's just all from
networking.

233
00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,800
So I stayed and you know, that
school, I met a lot of people

234
00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,960
and I was able to get a lot of
work right out of right.

235
00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,480
We're talking when I'm 19 years
old, you know, in Hollywood,

236
00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,480
living on my own.
And I stayed and it's.

237
00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,280
Insane.
Wait, especially wait Hollywood

238
00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:54,880
then isn't it's not like what
it.

239
00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,640
Is yeah, it was 1989.
It was pretty crazy.

240
00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,360
Like, you know, in other words,
I used to say, you know, we had.

241
00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:02,840
Friends So wait, did you land in
actually Hollywood?

242
00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,080
Were you in like, what's what
part of town were you?

243
00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:06,920
Well, right.
And it's funny, I I've just

244
00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,200
played in Hollywood recently.
I was able to go back and we did

245
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:14,080
a pretty decent show in the
heart of Hollywood and I went to

246
00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:18,760
visit my very first apartment.
So if you're familiar, obviously

247
00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:22,200
you are.
I lived Franklin and Gower

248
00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:24,240
basically when I first moved
there.

249
00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:29,160
Yeah, 6000 Franklin was my my
first apartment shut, so I just

250
00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,280
got a whole bunch of pictures
right out in front of it.

251
00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,680
And my school was like Mcadden
and Hollywood Blvd.

252
00:12:34,680 --> 00:12:38,160
So I would walk Hollywood Blvd.
every day and back to go to that

253
00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:42,400
school.
OK, so if people don't know LA,

254
00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:47,880
it's like he is literally in the
middle of the middle of

255
00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,560
Hollywood back in the day.
So when I I mean, I moved out

256
00:12:51,560 --> 00:12:54,120
there, I was 22.
So you had a couple of years on

257
00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:55,920
me, right?
I think I was 20.

258
00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,360
Yeah, 22.
And I started working at Shannon

259
00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,280
Clear Films.
That was on Hollywood and Vine,

260
00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:03,640
which I thought was right near
the frolic room.

261
00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,000
It was right by.
I love the Frolic Records, but

262
00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,840
Frolic Room was my favorite,
craziest little place in the

263
00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,080
world.
Little die, but back in the day,

264
00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:16,320
like Hollywood was, I don't I
mean L as got a whole different

265
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:22,560
thing, but the early 90s in Lai
mean it was a moment like a lot

266
00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:26,840
of part of town has.
Yeah, a lot of fun, a lot of

267
00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,080
different stuff.
So many bars to play at the

268
00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:30,760
time.
I think that's one of the hard

269
00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:34,480
things is like after living
there for so long, like being

270
00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,240
able to go hear live music was
so easy.

271
00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,120
You could go to 1000 places in
whatever part of town you were

272
00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,240
in.
Yeah, it was crazy.

273
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,680
And that's all.
Like, that wasn't West

274
00:13:44,680 --> 00:13:46,600
Hollywood.
It wasn't the Sunset Strip.

275
00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:51,360
As time went on and my lease
would come up, I'd start

276
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:55,320
gradually moving more towards,
well, like the person went to

277
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,160
Las Palmas then like Buena
Vista.

278
00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:59,080
Next thing you know, I'm like
living down on this on the

279
00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,760
strip.
And I did get to play, you know,

280
00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,680
at that point, like the whiskey
and the Roxy and all that stuff.

281
00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:07,480
So I, I can say I did all, I
used to hang out at the Rainbow

282
00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:09,720
all the time.
I basically lived there.

283
00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,160
I mean, it was a.
It was a fun time.

284
00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,440
I can't like, so when I was in
production, right, I was working

285
00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,960
14/16/20 out like I was working.
So I everyone's like, didn't you

286
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:21,880
party?
I'm like man, I was working.

287
00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:23,160
Yeah, you didn't really have
your own.

288
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,080
Set.
Yeah, you didn't really have

289
00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:25,240
time.
I.

290
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:26,800
Didn't get to have the fun like
that.

291
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:28,560
I don't.
I don't know if I was even that

292
00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,240
fun.
I mean, but at that point I was,

293
00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,720
I was working at a place called
Hollywood Center Studios, which

294
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:39,160
was like right at Las Palmas and
Santa Monica Blvd.

295
00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,680
You know, they had shot all
kinds of things there back in

296
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,880
the day and, and like Jeopardy
was on my lot and all that

297
00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,840
stuff, but they were part of
KTLA at that point also.

298
00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:54,120
So I worked at KTLA Television a
lot, a lot and, and also at

299
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,680
Hollywood Center Studios.
But I worked for, you know, the,

300
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:03,560
I worked for the studios.
I didn't work like on the films

301
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:05,200
as far as like getting right
like.

302
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,840
But as time went on, I met all
those people and that's what I

303
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,320
started falling into, was
getting picked up to work a film

304
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,400
or a commercial or or whatnot.
I met a lot of line thinking

305
00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:17,800
that and stuff like that.
Yeah, that's what I ended up

306
00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:18,960
doing.
So I had left.

307
00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:20,400
I was like, this is not why I'm
here.

308
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,120
I do not want to be doing this.
I want to be creative.

309
00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,400
Yeah, it's all freelancing.
One nightmare after another all

310
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,160
day.
Long I would pick up jobs like

311
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,640
in the art department on, on
like Schwarzenegger movies.

312
00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:33,200
And the next thing you know, I'm
a grip.

313
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,520
I know some people won't even
understand what we're talking

314
00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:38,920
about, but like, you know, you
know how those things are.

315
00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,800
Like there's an air conditioner
and it needs to be moved.

316
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:43,680
There's 20,000 people looking at
it.

317
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:45,920
They know it needs to be moved,
but can't move it until the

318
00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:47,640
grips come.
The grips have to move it.

319
00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:51,280
It's like ridiculous.
But that that's, that's the

320
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,480
world we lived in.
So I was very fortunate.

321
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:55,880
There's so many good old jokes
about grips, I don't think

322
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:57,720
they're like acceptable
nowadays.

323
00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:02,960
Like, probably not.
OK, so you're doing you're,

324
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,920
you're like day playing and
you're, you're like working on

325
00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:11,240
stuff, which is really cool.
So how do you like start moving

326
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:14,600
into building your career as a
musician?

327
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:16,960
Where did you ever do like
session work there?

328
00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:21,560
Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And still do again, it's all

329
00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:27,560
it's all who you know, I I used
to set.

330
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:32,080
So if you go back to the way Mr.
Colabella taught me, and then he

331
00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,640
had me go to this lady, Anne
Peterson in junior high.

332
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,480
And then I had this guy Murray
who lived in like high school.

333
00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,800
And I kind of had a little band
out here when I moved out there.

334
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:47,600
And I went to that school.
I, I could, the way the school

335
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,320
was structured was you punch in
and you had 24 hours to punch

336
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:53,080
out.
If as long as you did that you

337
00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:59,400
were, you were an absent #1 #2
you had five main classes, one

338
00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,800
of them each day of the week,
whether it was reading, jazz,

339
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,440
Latin, odd meter, whatever they
may be.

340
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,000
And then you had what was called
a reading class that was 1/2

341
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:11,680
hour.
So one class was an hour, one

342
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,280
class was 1/2 hour, but you had
full, you could go into the

343
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:17,960
school anytime you wanted.
You could rehearse in the rooms.

344
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,720
You put bands together.
You had to do like live playing

345
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:22,760
things for credits each 10
weeks.

346
00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:28,400
My point is every three weeks
before the end of a phase, they

347
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,440
would give you what's on your
final.

348
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,960
So like I could read my way
through this whole thing and

349
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,920
instead of going to these
classes, I went to all these

350
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,160
open workshops that had like
real famous people that were

351
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,240
just sitting in a room that are
there to either help you what

352
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:48,000
your tests or just talk business
with them and become friendly

353
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,560
with a lot of these people.
Next thing you know, I'm jamming

354
00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:52,960
with some of them.
And by the time that school

355
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,720
ended, I was getting work with
like people like Billy Sheehan,

356
00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:58,760
who I don't know if you know who
he is, but he played with David

357
00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:00,520
Lee Roth.
He's like a monster bass player.

358
00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:03,160
There was a guy named Tim
Bogart.

359
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,440
Like it was all referrals.
But because of what I showed

360
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,880
them and just got along with
them, I was getting session work

361
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:15,760
and I I started my own band and
the band I started actually had

362
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,160
a record deal.
When there were record deals, it

363
00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,600
was like 1990.
We were signed to.

364
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:23,360
What the heck was the name of
it?

365
00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,400
It was Madonna's record label.
She's just unopened it.

366
00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:30,680
We recorded an album and the
whole thing, and then we got

367
00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,040
dropped like everybody else.
But that's when I was playing

368
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,280
like the Roxy.
And then I got in another band

369
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,360
and and they were more like
alternative and we wound up

370
00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:40,600
going to Europe and stuff like
that.

371
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,880
So I really can't explain how it
happened.

372
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,320
It was like a whirlwind, but
like everything just started

373
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,160
happening at once.
And when I was home, I would

374
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,880
work.
One of the guys I was playing

375
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,280
with worked with me and
basically was my manager at the

376
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,560
Hollywood Center studio.
So like if we were home, he gave

377
00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,400
me hours.
If we were not there, we were

378
00:18:58,400 --> 00:18:59,800
both not there.
You know what I mean?

379
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,720
So I didn't have a care in the
world that, you know, I didn't

380
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,840
have any kids.
I didn't have anything like

381
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,000
that.
So it was just like go wherever.

382
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:12,200
It was almost like being a gypsy
and home base was Hollywood, you

383
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:13,920
know what I mean?
But that's how I got it.

384
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:15,480
I.
Think it's like, well you're

385
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,520
very easy to get along with so
you like you have that right so

386
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,640
you meet people whatever, but
you were in a good place at the

387
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:27,400
right time in like a magical
kind of like the music then

388
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,440
right there was like so many
different genres that.

389
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:34,200
Yeah, like grunge was about to
come out, the hair metal.

390
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,960
I think the point I was trying
to make with some, most of the

391
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:41,160
guys I went to school with, you
had a drum lab too, and you can

392
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:43,720
be there 24 hours.
These guys would like they

393
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:48,920
wouldn't go out a lot up against
I need to practice me.

394
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:52,040
I was like, I can read my way
through this crap already.

395
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:55,160
I want to go meet rock stars.
I want to mingle.

396
00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,600
And I didn't realize from a
business perspective at the

397
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,920
time, it was called networking.
I thought I was just partying,

398
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,120
you know what I mean?
But I were, I were.

399
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:06,040
Partying.
Come on.

400
00:20:06,120 --> 00:20:10,120
Right.
But like, during that partying,

401
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,400
I rubbed elbows with some really
killer people that I still talk

402
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,680
to today and have thrown me some
crazy work both in the movie

403
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,160
industry and in the music
industry, you know?

404
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,840
I love that.
I can't believe we didn't know

405
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:22,680
that we were both.
Out.

406
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,240
No, we didn't.
We didn't for so many years like

407
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:27,480
it.
That blew me away.

408
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,520
That that, that upsets me
actually, because we would have

409
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,880
had a lot of fun.
Yeah, you would have pulled me

410
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:36,040
out.
He'd been like, you know, you're

411
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,680
working too hard, come here.
I would have done anything for

412
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:39,480
some of.
That, yeah.

413
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,800
And who knows when you wrapped
one thing you might have, we

414
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,160
might have wound up working
together at times too, because

415
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,720
that's just how that all worked.
I'm I'm pretty sure that's how

416
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,440
it still works, but you know, it
is what it is.

417
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:52,960
Oh, for sure it.
Was a big time in my life.

418
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,960
And, you know, some days I go, I
look at all the people we grew

419
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,600
up with and, you know, they got
married young and, and they

420
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,360
started there, you know, I can't
even explain it.

421
00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:06,880
They did everything right.
In other words, you know, and

422
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,120
like there was a good 15 years,
I didn't do any of that stuff.

423
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,920
But at the end of the day, now
they look at me like, oh man, I

424
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,800
wish I had your wife, you know,
and they're, they're old and,

425
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,640
and, you know, bored.
I think, I don't ever think.

426
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:23,560
I think that was part of my
thing, why I didn't fit in.

427
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,440
I'm like, why is that the only
way to do it?

428
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,880
That's not like obviously there
was the pressure to do good.

429
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,240
That was like the pressure of
like what I felt in my house.

430
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:33,840
You have to do better than we
did.

431
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,160
You have to do better, right?
That was like the culture inside

432
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:40,080
the house.
But I think like, you know, I

433
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,200
live in the South now and people
get married really young now and

434
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,960
they have babies really young.
And I'm like, or hear me out,

435
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,600
you go figure out who you are.
You go explore the world, make

436
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:56,880
some mistakes, fail, try again,
Go see the world while you only

437
00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,760
don't really have any
responsibility and then.

438
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,440
That's exactly.
Then you still had kids way

439
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,160
before me though.
Like, yeah, I'm just saying for

440
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,200
a guy who lived a rock'n'roll
lifestyle, you, you have a big

441
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,320
family.
I did, and that started it when

442
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:14,760
I was 30, you know, which
compared to who we grew up with,

443
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,560
that's late, you know, But it
was a little too early for me as

444
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,200
well.
You know, Look, I wouldn't trade

445
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,320
it for the world.
I love my daughters, but you

446
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:28,520
know, it didn't, it definitely
put a, it definitely put a stop

447
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,200
to what I was doing for a little
while.

448
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,280
You know, I had to recalculate.
I was telling you like there was

449
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:37,680
a period there where technically
I, I quit playing professionally

450
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,800
and I started my own drumstick
business and I had a day job.

451
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,840
There was just no time to commit
to being in, in, in the

452
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:50,400
rock'n'roll scene.
So they had that whole thing and

453
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:55,400
somehow I wound up inventing
like these grips for drumsticks

454
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,640
and you know, I was able to get
it off the ground.

455
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,680
I was selling the stuff
globally, big orders to like

456
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,480
South Korea, Europe, stuff like
that.

457
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,880
And back then it was before
YouTube and stuff.

458
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,560
It was really no way to market
it the way you could market

459
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,440
today.
So it was all trade shows and

460
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:21,160
again, meeting people.
I met a ton of drummers because

461
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:26,400
I was endorsing some pretty big,
you know, stars and stuff like

462
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,880
Tim Mcgraw's drummer and stuff
like that.

463
00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:34,240
And that all went away when my
partner just wasn't doing

464
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,200
anything and I was doing
everything, you know, I got

465
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,040
tired of doing everything for
half the money.

466
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,120
I tried to take the company
alone when I moved back to New

467
00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:46,800
York when it was just too much
to do.

468
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,360
And I went back to play because
I kind of needed money, you

469
00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:54,000
know, And that's when I started
playing again.

470
00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:58,480
And the second, the second leg
of my career, I remember the.

471
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,720
Name it was called unigrams.
I just love it like unigrams.

472
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,680
We might have to resurrect it.
You're, you know, you see you.

473
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:05,240
Got time.
Now.

474
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,880
That's a funny thing is I still
have a basement full of these

475
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,480
things and I can't personally
play around drumstick ever

476
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,400
again.
And I have.

477
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,640
I'm the only one who has them at
this point.

478
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,760
But yeah, I was selling them.
Sam Ash, Guitar Center.

479
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:23,040
We were all over the place.
So you know that that, that

480
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,520
that's an odd story, but like
the way that all came to be, and

481
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,440
this is pretty funny.
You talk about thinking

482
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,840
out-of-the-box and how you can
make shit happen.

483
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,560
I had a buddy who was a drummer
out there, which I had a million

484
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,160
of them.
He had a cleaning company.

485
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,760
You know, he, he, he cleaned
some like movie.

486
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:47,440
He cleaned carpets and floors
and he had some, you know, one

487
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:53,320
of his clients was each movie
star, a guy from The Godfather,

488
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,960
Marlon Brando used to play chess
with Marlon Brando, right?

489
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,400
So he had accounts like that.
And then he also had like

490
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,280
corporate accounts.
And he had this thing was like a

491
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,760
bartering system.
Like you, you wouldn't like me

492
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,880
and you barter per SE, but you
would go clean somebody's limos

493
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,480
or something.
And then like if you wanted to

494
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,600
use the barter system, if they
were within it, you could use it

495
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,680
for something else.
Make a Long story short, I had a

496
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:22,880
dream and, and it was when we
were really young, like I

497
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:24,920
could've, I don't even know it
was a dream.

498
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:26,840
I could've swore I seen one of
these things.

499
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:31,880
And basically when I moved to
Hollywood, there MTV started

500
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,840
doing like that unplugged show
where all the bands would come

501
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:40,040
on and play like acoustic and
there with Promark drumsticks

502
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:41,720
made.
This thing is called the hot

503
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,080
Rod.
And the it's all, it's a bunch

504
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,600
of it's a bunch of dowels like
little say bamboo.

505
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,720
They're not bamboo, but say
Birch sticks and they're shrink

506
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,920
wrapped together.
And the way they form it causes

507
00:25:54,920 --> 00:26:00,000
a hexa grip which like kind of
fits right in the digits of your

508
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,000
finger.
Way before that I could have

509
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,520
swore I saw one growing up like,
but it was a, it was a yellow

510
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,120
grip that you put on a stick.
So now you could play it loud.

511
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,520
I, I did like patent searches at
the time and I had to, we had to

512
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,200
get a lawyer, which will, the
whole barter thing will come

513
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:20,760
into play.
This is why I haven't had the

514
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,240
partner in the 1st place.
And I kept telling I'm like,

515
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:26,800
there's no way it's that it's
out there.

516
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,840
I saw it like 1520 years ago
when I was a kid.

517
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,720
And sure enough, there wasn't.
So she's like, let's go for a

518
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,200
patent.
So we bartered this, this woman

519
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,960
to do like a $23,000 patent,
which we would never going to

520
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,160
clean those carpets and, and
floors to ever pay that back.

521
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,280
But sure enough, we got the
patent, and that's how that

522
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,000
whole damn thing started.
I love that.

523
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,000
Yep, that's how it all started.
Yeah.

524
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,560
Like you can't, you can't really
put a business plan like that

525
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,400
together.
All you can do is take advantage

526
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,160
and make moves on opportunities
that are in front of you.

527
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:05,440
You know what I mean?
And that's how that all came to

528
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,120
be.
And honestly, he was the one

529
00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:11,520
like, hey, you can get a patent,
BI got AI, got a lawyer that can

530
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,040
help us.
So down the road, I I wound up

531
00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:17,360
having a couple of other patents
on a couple of products.

532
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,240
I won't go into too much detail,
but I wrote the patents myself

533
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,880
because I, I saw how she did it
and whatever.

534
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,120
I didn't have to pay all that
money.

535
00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:27,960
All I had to do was pay the
filing fees.

536
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,880
So that company was a, you know,
we were in existence for a good

537
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,360
1015 years.
We used to do all the NAMM shows

538
00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:38,640
and stuff and it was a really
cool period of my life.

539
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,960
But you were always making
music, so I want to talk about

540
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,280
like, do you?
I'm assuming you write your own

541
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,760
music too.
I have.

542
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,280
It depends on the situation.
Like I always tell myself I'm

543
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,480
still sitting on like a whole
bunch of music that I wrote on

544
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,360
my own that's never been used
with any of the projects I've

545
00:27:56,360 --> 00:27:59,960
been involved in and whatever.
And one of these days I'm going

546
00:27:59,960 --> 00:28:02,120
to get in the studio and I'm
going to make my own album.

547
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,320
And I'll get a bunch of guest
players that people I know that

548
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,520
are somewhat famous to like be
sing on this song and play

549
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:14,560
guitar in this song.
But yeah, my whole thing is I

550
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,720
learned at that point when I got
out of of the Unigroup thing

551
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:22,960
that AI need to make some cash.
So I need to take advantage of

552
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,000
the fact that I can play almost
anything and play in cover bands

553
00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:29,240
because cover bands get cash and
they go home.

554
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,080
They don't go on a bus and don't
come home for three months and

555
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,560
then wait for checks or things
like that.

556
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:40,800
But I always had to have this
creative side to me, so always

557
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,840
needed to be involved in like an
original ban.

558
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,440
And when I moved back, I mean, I
was in several of them, like I

559
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,240
explained in in Hollywood, and
some of them were successful,

560
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,320
but it was a whole different
business then business totally

561
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:57,360
changed when I came back here.
I needed to have both avenues.

562
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,520
So this is probably to time it
stamp it.

563
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,440
My world, I'm not my world.
My space was the thing.

564
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,320
It wasn't even Facebook yet.
And there was a band forming

565
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,560
that was in a couple of
different pretty well known

566
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:16,280
bands from the New York scene.
And those bands fell apart and

567
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,560
it was a band forming and they
were looking to get a drummer.

568
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,680
So they weren't a band yet.
They didn't even have a name.

569
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:23,880
But I recognize who they came
from.

570
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,760
And my whole thing was at that
point, I need a cover band to

571
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,480
make some money and I need to
have my creative outlet.

572
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,400
And at the same time, these guys
look like will at least get to

573
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,520
play some of the big rooms in
the city and I'll get noticed

574
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,840
and spin that off into another
big game just while I'm trying

575
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,720
to get my, you know, being from
here, you would think it would

576
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,880
be easy to move back.
But I moved out there at a time

577
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:51,200
where I was so young still, I
didn't do anything with anybody

578
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:52,840
out here.
Nobody knew who the fuck I was,

579
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,160
you know what I mean?
So I needed that.

580
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:59,440
And in all reality, and we put
together, that's when Kill Code

581
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:03,240
was formed.
And it it, it's just is, it's

582
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,160
five guys that had no business
meeting each other.

583
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,920
And we did.
And we wound up just kicking ass

584
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:10,560
right out of the gate.
We all had really good

585
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,960
connections.
Some of our big first shows were

586
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,160
like at the Rhode Island, like
Dunkin' Donuts Arena, like

587
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,360
opening for Godsmack and stuff
like that.

588
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:20,840
It was ridiculous.
That's.

589
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,200
Insane and every opportunity
that we ever got, we showed up

590
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,880
and we kicked ass.
So we doubled our fan base.

591
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,400
All the opportunities we wound
up getting down the road in

592
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,440
Europe and all that.
All those big festivals, most of

593
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,960
them were to strangers, but then
we kicked butt and everybody

594
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,200
liked us some.
But yes, that's all original and

595
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,160
we all write the music together
and you know, we would get in a

596
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:46,000
room and, and this guy would
have, there's no like equation

597
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:47,560
to it.
But if somebody would have an

598
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:49,360
idea and then we just start
playing and all of a sudden

599
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,320
becomes a song.
Sometimes I help with lyrics,

600
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,040
sometimes I don't have to.
It all depends on it.

601
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,360
But together we write really
well without each other.

602
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:04,040
It's not the same, you know.
So knock on wood, that's, that's

603
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,520
been my bread and butter.
We've, we've been able to land

604
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,840
some and here's where the where
the money is.

605
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,840
All the nowadays is all in
publishing and we've been able

606
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:18,400
to get some TV spots and some
good movie spots and stuff like

607
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:18,840
that.
So.

608
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,720
That's cool.
Like so if people aren't

609
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,800
familiar with killcode, I can
tell you like your music is

610
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,880
like, you know, it's rock, it's
met.

611
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:28,880
It's like hard right?
But then you also have Skitch

612
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,840
and then you have the wrong
side, which is chill.

613
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:32,440
Wow, you know you did your
homework.

614
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,360
Yeah, you did your homework.
So right.

615
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,640
Yeah, the name, the name
Killcode itself sounds a lot

616
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:43,680
heavier than the band is, but
yeah, so Sketch is funny.

617
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,000
You bring up Sketch Sketch.
That song actually was the first

618
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,960
song we ever got in ATV show.
So I still get a little bit of

619
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,440
checks from that song.
And then we have beautiful songs

620
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,600
like the Wrong Side.
See, there's no rhyme or reason

621
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:56,800
to it.
You would think The Wrong Side

622
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:58,400
would be making me tons of
money.

623
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,800
It's not Sketches, you know.
And then we have another song,

624
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,440
Bleed, that just came out in the
new Schwarzenegger.

625
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:10,000
No Stallone movie, it's called.
The movie is called Armor.

626
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,200
The movie is called Armor.
Yeah, it came out in like

627
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:14,760
November.
So there's probably already

628
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:19,160
right to to streaming, but I'm
already seeing checks for that.

629
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,640
So you just, you never know.
You know what, we we never wrote

630
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,040
anything like this is one we
want to send to a movie.

631
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,240
Like we just have a publishing
company and they pitch all our

632
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,240
shit, you know what I mean?
And they find placement for it.

633
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,480
So how do you not get screwed by
that?

634
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:39,200
Like honestly, right was like,
because a lot of people sign

635
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:44,120
that, like new artists nowadays,
I'm watching because of TV shows

636
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:49,960
or they'll hit a viral moment on
social media and and I always

637
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,240
leave in the comments, keep your
rights.

638
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,480
Like, yes, give those away.
But that's a hard thing for

639
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,720
people to be like not get sucked
into.

640
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,400
So how did you all keep your
head straight with that?

641
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,560
Like well, we didn't sucked in
the way the business was

642
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,160
changing and it was changing so
fast and I'll be honest, which

643
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,160
is the way the business has
changed like since kill code

644
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,120
formed say this guy like 1516
years.

645
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,280
It's a the friggin business
already has changed like 3 times

646
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,720
yes, no matter how the business
changes, you have to keep your

647
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,960
right.
So you have to copyright your

648
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,760
stuff on your own.
Don't let a label get involved

649
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,280
in any of that.
Every time you release a piece

650
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,920
of music, you make sure that you
guys, in our case is five ways.

651
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:41,280
Our names are on it and now that
just to not to beat a horse,

652
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:42,800
but.
Like, do you all split it even

653
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:44,280
or is it like the person who
wrote this?

654
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,880
Like, yeah.
No, we're all 555 ways, 20% so

655
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:49,920
love.
It.

656
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,560
Then the streaming thing came in
where nobody was buying

657
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,840
downloads and you can stream
shit and now they've made it

658
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,120
where you do get paid for
streaming.

659
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,400
So like YouTube, Spotify, all
that stuff.

660
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,320
YouTube is basically like ATV
channel now.

661
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,719
So if your if your songs hit a
certain amount of spins, they

662
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:12,440
start throwing advertisements on
it.

663
00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:14,920
And sure, people can skip the
advert, but once you start

664
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,360
seeing that, that means you're
generating money, you know?

665
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,080
So it's all based on how many
subscribers we have, which by

666
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,719
the way, everybody please sign
up for Kill Code Band at

667
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,199
YouTube, because we really don't
have a lot of people on there.

668
00:34:29,199 --> 00:34:31,000
It's crazy.
We got a million fans and people

669
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:32,520
just don't hit that subscribe
button.

670
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:37,880
But yeah, you get money for the
amount of people you have on

671
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,520
there and then the amount of
hours of spins are, and then

672
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,000
each individual thing.
And the same thing with like

673
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,520
Spotify and stuff like that.
So we do see incremental checks.

674
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,440
But it's funny, if I showed you
like my quarterly things like,

675
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,520
you know, you get $0.10 for this
song from this amount of spins

676
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,960
and but it adds up.
You know, the TV shows and the

677
00:34:55,960 --> 00:35:00,000
movies are the other other big
things you know and see.

678
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,600
They do it, People ask.
Me about my book, they're like

679
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,040
how much money you making on
that book?

680
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,760
I'm like baby, like an e-book.
You get like a fraction of a

681
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:08,200
penny.
Right, right.

682
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,920
So, so in my case, like that's
why I say the money's more with

683
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,600
the TV and stuff because we have
a publishing company.

684
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,920
He pitches our stuff.
If he lands somebody who wants

685
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,720
it, you basically a get a sign
on fee.

686
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:27,040
So you get money up front for
them to use your music #1 #2

687
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,600
then it starts being put it into
the theater or whatever it may

688
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,400
be on TV and then you'll start
seeing it goes to Hulu or

689
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,480
whatever.
So your statements say like, you

690
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,440
know, the The Rookie is one of
the shows we're on and now it's

691
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,120
to be aired on Hulu and
whatever.

692
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:46,480
So like this month, this many
spins on on Hulu or Netflix or

693
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:47,840
whatever, and that's where we
go.

694
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,240
But you get money up front
putting it in there.

695
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:52,160
Now you have to protect your
publishing.

696
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:57,040
We pay the publicist probably
10% to land it.

697
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,360
So he gets 10% of our sign on
fee.

698
00:36:00,720 --> 00:36:05,880
And then you know, we, I don't
think he gets 10% of the royalty

699
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:07,840
stuff.
He basically just gets to sign

700
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,640
on.
But it's all, it's like anything

701
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:12,480
else.
It's all, it's all how you sign

702
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,680
the deal.
If he puts in that deal, he's

703
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,760
taking 50% of it and you take
it, you're giving him 50% of.

704
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,760
It yeah, you gotta be tough.
You gotta know how to say no.

705
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,240
Yeah, during those things,
'cause it's so excited.

706
00:36:23,240 --> 00:36:24,920
You're like, Oh my God, I'm
discovered.

707
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:26,880
I I know.
It's like when people are like,

708
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:31,200
hey, can you work for free?
No, I mean, I could, but I'm not

709
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,200
going to, right.
Thanks for asking.

710
00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:35,800
It's like, yeah, don't ask
artists to work for free.

711
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,440
It's a lot of work, man.
We know it's not right.

712
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,680
Like I think I was thinking of
Nabster.

713
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:44,040
I think Nabster changed a.
Lot that started it right and so

714
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,880
that was the beginning of people
being able to stream and listen

715
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:52,720
to your stuff without having to
purchase it and thankfully down

716
00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:55,720
the road somebody changed
something in in Congress or

717
00:36:55,720 --> 00:36:58,920
whatever and you do get paid for
streaming now but the streaming

718
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,640
platforms were smart and they
went out and just like ATV

719
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,800
station they get people to pay
for advertisement.

720
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,120
So that's why like, you know, if
if you start seeing

721
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:13,480
advertisements on your stuff on
YouTube, that means you're

722
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,640
starting to generate some sort
of money, you know?

723
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:21,240
So like, how did you do love
like family and music?

724
00:37:21,240 --> 00:37:25,200
Like, I know you sacrifice some
of the music to like be the man

725
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,720
like his.
No one could like ever say that

726
00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:29,240
you're not like, you're not a
Mensch, right?

727
00:37:29,240 --> 00:37:30,680
Like you're such, you're a good
man.

728
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,360
So like, how did that like, feel
for you?

729
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,360
Like that balancing routine
being like, you know, I have to

730
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,240
be responsible.
So I can't quite do this part of

731
00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:43,280
the business anymore.
This is a, this is, yeah, this

732
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,200
is a great conversation because
it's going to bleed into what we

733
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,960
were just discussing.
So again, I really only have

734
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:54,960
success and know what not to do
based on the states.

735
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,480
So I had mentioned when I
started having the kids, I had

736
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,000
to like I fell into this
situation.

737
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,440
I was going to start my own
company.

738
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:10,000
I couldn't do a band or or be a
musician out at night, put the

739
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,360
extra time after my day job into
all three things.

740
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,680
So like, I had a day job which I
had to keep for, you know,

741
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,880
insurance and stuff for the kids
and I had chose to start my own

742
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,800
business with my extra time.
I got hurt on my day job.

743
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,920
I wound up getting workers comp
at a killer time because I was

744
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:33,600
able to take that time and
really get the business moving.

745
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,600
And then it got to the point,
like during that time, I would

746
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,640
get a lot of people asking me,
you want to work, you want to

747
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,280
play this, you want to do this
gig, you want to do this album,

748
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:49,120
you want to do this.
And I got really good at saying

749
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,840
no because honestly, I had to
say no, I don't have the time.

750
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:53,640
And I'm not the type of guy
who's going to take somebody

751
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,760
along and say I have the time
and then do it half assed when

752
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,480
you say no.
Like we were just talking about

753
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,600
all of a sudden my rates went up
because people would come back,

754
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:08,800
Oh, what if we pay you more?
And believe me in that, in that

755
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:13,880
in that time where I said no,
there's probably a few things I

756
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,040
probably shouldn't have said no
to that will create

757
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,280
opportunities.
Do we want to bring up puddle of

758
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:20,480
mud?
Because, you know, this is like,

759
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:24,040
I'm like, I'm like.
Well, yeah, you didn't do that.

760
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,160
That's one of them.
It was during that time.

761
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:31,720
And the guy's name from Puddle
Of Mudd is Wes.

762
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,040
So Wes is just, Wes is just some
other guy.

763
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,480
Everybody knows that.
I don't know him, but he's got a

764
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,840
band and he got signed by
capital or whatever it was and

765
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,960
they need a drummer and he's got
$1,000,000 deal.

766
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,720
And you know they'll pay you
this much to go in and do the

767
00:39:46,720 --> 00:39:47,960
album.
And again, there's so many

768
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:52,680
people at that point.
This is like 2001 something,

769
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,160
2002 people just getting screwed
by the record label.

770
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:57,360
So I didn't even want to hear
that.

771
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,240
And I said if I would record the
album, I remember saying, but I

772
00:40:01,240 --> 00:40:05,560
want like $5000 and I don't want
anything to do with the future

773
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:07,440
because there ain't going to be
no future.

774
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,000
You know what I mean?
So they were like, now we want a

775
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:11,520
guy to come in and be the
drummer.

776
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,000
It's that type of band.
I said I understand, so I'll

777
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,720
pass.
And we all know what happened

778
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:18,720
with Puddle Of Mudd.
They became a huge band.

779
00:40:18,720 --> 00:40:22,240
So like, I was very confident
that I made the right decision.

780
00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:25,280
But you know, at the time it was
the right decision because I

781
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,400
probably couldn't have gone on a
bus and gone anywhere.

782
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:34,400
So you know that that like I
said, most cases saying no help

783
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,600
me.
But in that case I probably lost

784
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,000
a decent amount of money.
And even today now, with all the

785
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,640
streams of their music and
stuff, if I was the guy in those

786
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,920
videos, I'd be getting some
really good checks, but I don't.

787
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:47,960
Know but you you you had a good
life so.

788
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,120
Yeah, I just.
Remember hearing that I was

789
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:51,440
like, what?
You didn't go to polo mud?

790
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,000
What are you thinking?
I don't regret it.

791
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:57,440
I at the same time around that
time I ghost drummed on a whole

792
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,240
bunch of really popular.
So then I got I got paid fat

793
00:41:01,240 --> 00:41:04,600
money like just to be the ghost
drummer and walk away, sign the

794
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,640
contract and never say I was
their drummer for like 20 years

795
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,440
or whatever.
So like for?

796
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:12,440
I really can't.
Interested in doing that.

797
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,800
Like what kind of money is that?
Like if you don't want to say,

798
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:18,520
you could just give me like.
Well, at that point, so this

799
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:23,520
one, this one band who like they
were, they were frigging huge

800
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,560
youngsters.
They were way younger than us

801
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:30,960
even at the time and now they're
already you.

802
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,720
You can put them in the category
of the washed up but comes out

803
00:41:33,720 --> 00:41:36,960
once in a while and still sells
out like really big theaters and

804
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,200
stuff.
They have 1,000,000 of streams

805
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:44,480
on their videos and stuff.
At the time they really only it

806
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:49,360
was only really a question of
like 3 songs that they needed

807
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,480
done that the young drummer was
like believe his kids better

808
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,560
than me.
He's a Psycho drummer, but he

809
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:58,720
wasn't inclined to really play
into a clique and the style they

810
00:41:58,720 --> 00:42:02,480
wanted for that, those
particular songs.

811
00:42:02,720 --> 00:42:06,200
And I had met that producer of
the album playing with this

812
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:11,120
other Psycho band called So So
Human that the drum stuff in it

813
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:12,920
was incredible.
It was like, and that's pretty

814
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,280
much the the gig that broke me
out of retirement because when I

815
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:20,600
had Unigrip, I was trying to get
every one of my endorsers to go

816
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,320
audition for this band.
I, it's like a like a record

817
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,840
label.
I would get a million bands that

818
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,560
would send me stuff.
And I was blown away by the

819
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:30,880
talent in this band and the
songs in this band.

820
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,280
And I would go to some of my
biggest players like Nick Menza

821
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,840
from Megadeth and Bless the
Soul, he's not with us anymore.

822
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,680
But like he's like, I don't even
know I could play this stuff.

823
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:41,640
I don't know.
I'm too old.

824
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,320
I don't want to do it.
So like, I wound up just going

825
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:49,320
down to the auditions, you know,
just to see if I can pull it off

826
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,000
and I've got the gig, you know?
So next thing you know, I'm like

827
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:56,840
on AI was on a bus with these
guys and open it up for bands

828
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:02,040
like Mudvayne and whatnot.
So that producer who I recorded

829
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:06,200
some songs with for their album
wound up the, the producer for

830
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,000
this, this band that I'm
Speaking of.

831
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,920
And he was the one who was
obviously hitting the wall time

832
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,320
wise and money wise with the
young drummer.

833
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:16,040
And he knew I could play to a
click.

834
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,080
He knew I could do that style.
It's just again, it all lined

835
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:20,560
up.
So he's like, would you come

836
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:24,480
down?
And I negotiated $1000 a song,

837
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:26,360
you know, And that's, that's
what I got.

838
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:34,520
So I I made $3000 to record 3 of
their biggest songs and you

839
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:38,400
know, if I was that drummer I'd
probably have about $3,000,000

840
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,480
you know what I mean?
But it is what?

841
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:42,760
It is.
So if you do that, do you not

842
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:44,480
get a part of the back end
because you're?

843
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:46,280
Not no.
Well, again, it's all it's all

844
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,080
it's all what you signed.
And it's funny you say that

845
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:52,280
because it's, you know, the 20
year mark had come up and, and

846
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,000
they wanted me to resign it
because they were going back on

847
00:43:55,000 --> 00:44:00,480
the road like a reunion thing.
And, and I did resign it for

848
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,800
another five years.
But I'm getting ready to

849
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:07,240
renegotiate that because I want
a piece of the spins and I want

850
00:44:07,240 --> 00:44:09,880
backpack.
So I'm talking with a lawyer

851
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:12,280
now.
They may tell me to go scratch.

852
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:14,560
We don't care anymore.
You can tell everybody it was

853
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:17,280
you or they could cut me in on
that.

854
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,160
I mean, I would imagine.
Dealing and it just makes sense

855
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,240
to cut you in at this point,
doesn't it?

856
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:22,960
It really.
Does it?

857
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,560
Might I mean not that.
Anyone in the industry does

858
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:26,040
that.
I won't.

859
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,240
Get another lump sum of money
I'll just start getting points

860
00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:33,000
on that on that on the spins and
all that stuff just pretty well

861
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:37,720
I'll tell you I'll tell you
offline who they are and I

862
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:39,440
there's.
Been AI think I remember who it

863
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:41,640
is actually.
There's been a couple of other

864
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,920
ones because of thanks to that
producer.

865
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,960
You know, I can't really mention
their names either.

866
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:51,600
They weren't as as poppy and as
big as these guys became, but

867
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,560
they're pretty damn popular and
they're pretty good, good bands.

868
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,560
And I made the same amount of
money about, you know, that

869
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,720
became my rate at the time.
But this is like 20 something

870
00:45:00,720 --> 00:45:03,400
years ago.
So I mean, now that rate would

871
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:08,200
probably be 7 to 10 grand a song
for a situation.

872
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,880
I was like add a zero man, you
would need to add a 0.

873
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:14,640
You gotta remember at that.
Time like to play if there's a

874
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:18,040
big money then so what's it like
to play a festival?

875
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,880
I always wondered what it's like
on stage compared to like being

876
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:22,160
out there.
It's a pisser.

877
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:23,680
So many people are coming and
going.

878
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:25,680
It's a pisser.
So it's like, first of all,

879
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:27,760
forever.
First of all, you're playing

880
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:31,400
with bands that you idolize and
you can't even believe like,

881
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,000
especially when you're in
Europe, you're playing with

882
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:37,040
bands you haven't even thought
of, but you saw as a little kid

883
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:38,960
at the Coliseum and stuff like
that.

884
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,760
Because they're still big out
there and they're the main ones.

885
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,000
I mean, look, we toured with
Twisted Sister when we were

886
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,880
little kids watching MTV.
Like who wasn't waiting for D

887
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,440
sider to come on TV?
You know, now I know these guys.

888
00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:57,560
But so as far as playing in
front of all that many people,

889
00:45:57,720 --> 00:46:01,560
I'd say the biggest show that I
can recall we did was in Mexico

890
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:05,280
City, honestly.
And it was like 60,000 people

891
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:11,880
and we were kind of early on in
the night, not way early, but by

892
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:15,400
the time, by the time the main
bands went on, the last bands

893
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:19,400
went on like Rammstein and
stuff, it was 85,000 people I

894
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:21,600
think was the Max.
So we play in front of like

895
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:23,920
60,000 people.
It's not even real.

896
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,240
You know, they have the jumbo
charms, you're on the jumbo

897
00:46:26,240 --> 00:46:28,440
charms.
You see all these people.

898
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,360
I tell you, it's more nerve
wracking playing in front of 10

899
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,800
people in a little room because
they you can't really

900
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,480
communicate with these people.
It's so massive.

901
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,320
It's it and it's fun.
Like you just bouncing around,

902
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,480
watching other bands, staying in
hotels.

903
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:47,920
It's you meet a lot of cool
people.

904
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:49,880
I've made a lot of friends all
over the world.

905
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,760
And, and you know, we've been
fortunate to go back to Germany

906
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:57,880
several times and the UK several
times and Switzerland and out

907
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:01,040
there it's kind of small.
So you meet people like in Spain

908
00:47:01,720 --> 00:47:03,760
that are from Germany and vice
versa.

909
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:05,920
Whatever.
So now I've got a lot of really,

910
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:09,880
really great friends and, and
good relationships of people

911
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:12,600
that they're not just, you know,
they're not just fans.

912
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:14,560
They started out as fans, but
they become friends.

913
00:47:15,240 --> 00:47:18,040
The big thing about Kilco, it's,
it's a big family.

914
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:21,640
You know, we, we, we love them
just as much as they love us.

915
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:26,240
So, you know, we hang out with
them, you know, we walk around

916
00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:28,840
the campgrounds because most of
those things are, they camp for

917
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:32,560
three days.
We'll go walk around and drink

918
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:33,840
with them at their tents and
shit.

919
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:36,800
And that goes a long way, man.
People are like, oh, those are

920
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:37,920
those guys.
They hung out with us.

921
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:39,720
We've gotta get over and see.
You know, they come to your

922
00:47:39,720 --> 00:47:41,720
merch booth, they buy all your
stuff.

923
00:47:41,720 --> 00:47:44,960
So it's a lot of fun to answer
that.

924
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,360
Do you make good money as a
musician with merch?

925
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:49,120
Like do you guys get a good part
of that?

926
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,640
Like we, we can we we you make
your most.

927
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,520
Yeah, for the most part we
control all our merch and all

928
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,360
our publishing.
But when you do festivals like

929
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:02,760
that, you, you can't run your
own merch table, kind of like

930
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,840
even some of the smaller places
out here, like even the Coliseum

931
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:10,840
or Jones Beach or whatever, the
venue gets a piece of it because

932
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,680
they're running your merch.
So you count it off, you give it

933
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,440
to them, their people run it.
And at the end of the night,

934
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:19,440
they take their piece like 15%
and you get the right, but it's

935
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,520
still less.
It's good money, yeah.

936
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,960
Like I'm still trying to imagine
like being on a stage with like

937
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:29,320
60,000 people in front of me.
I I don't I know you looked at

938
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:33,680
some videos and stuff.
This is 1 video of us before we

939
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:37,040
go on on that in that show in in
Mexico City and we're standing

940
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,480
backstage waiting to be
announced and we're looking out

941
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:42,920
like this is fucked up.
Like do you see how many fucking

942
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:45,840
people are out there?
Are they even gonna like us?

943
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,000
You know, like it's, it's pretty
crazy.

944
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,680
But like, I'll tell you what,
it's like you remember when you

945
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:51,120
were.
Kidding.

946
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:53,280
Do you feel safer because you're
behind the drums?

947
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,000
Like, you know, you're like,
you're kind of back in that or.

948
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:57,480
I guess is it?
Just as.

949
00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:59,760
Intense, I guess, but the
adrenaline starts going and

950
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,200
stuff and you just, you just do.
You're saying, you know, And

951
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:05,320
like I said, it's not like
playing in front of 10 people

952
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,000
where they're staring at you
watching every note.

953
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:08,800
Yo, you made a mistake or
something like that.

954
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:12,040
It's just a free for all.
It's, it's, it's, I tell you,

955
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:16,280
the feeling is kind of like it's
like when we were kids and you

956
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:18,400
went to like great adventure or
something and you went on the

957
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:20,960
best roller coaster you ever
went on and you'd like went in

958
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,560
the loop, the loops and you come
off with this adrenaline high.

959
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:27,320
That's what it feels like.
It's like I'm I'm.

960
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:30,040
Gonna guess it's better than.
That yeah, it might be.

961
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:32,360
I mean, it's just like, did that
happen like that?

962
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:35,400
That was just insane.
And they're screaming back at

963
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,720
you like we always have this
thing, 'cause honestly, my

964
00:49:38,720 --> 00:49:42,440
singer Tommy, he comes from like
a hip hop background, so he

965
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:44,560
loves hip hop.
He used to be a break dancer and

966
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:48,320
all this stuff.
Nobody he came up with this

967
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:50,720
little, he came up with this
little kitchy thing we used to

968
00:49:50,720 --> 00:49:52,960
do in New York City a lot.
And he said, when I say kill,

969
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:56,920
you say code kill and everybody
goes code and like you do it in

970
00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:59,280
front and they all they don't
even know who you are and but

971
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:00,880
they love interacting and doing
it.

972
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:04,040
She has 60,000 people yelling
told it's like it's pretty

973
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:05,560
fucked crazy.
It feels good that.

974
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:08,160
Is awesome, I'm no doubt all
right.

975
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:11,520
So going from feeling good to
like knowing that we're now past

976
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:16,920
or in our middle age, how do you
physically manage like touring

977
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:19,320
and how do you physically handle
being a drummer?

978
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:22,240
Because that is all your body
going.

979
00:50:22,240 --> 00:50:26,480
Like I know, I know how much PGI
require.

980
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,080
Like, you know, just getting out
of bed, I'm like every part of

981
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:32,520
me cracks.
I've got 1000 old injuries from

982
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:36,520
dancing.
So you still are super active as

983
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,040
a drummer.
So what do you have to do to

984
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,480
take care of yourself physically
to keep going?

985
00:50:43,240 --> 00:50:45,880
Good question.
I mean, I've been better at it

986
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,240
at times.
There's definitely you should be

987
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:50,400
staying in shape.
I mean, what I do is pretty

988
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,560
vigorous, especially in, in
front of those big crowds.

989
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:58,000
But I mean, like it all depends.
Like we're, we've been

990
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,200
fortunate.
We've never really been that

991
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:05,480
band that gets in a van and, or
a bus even and towards 50 cities

992
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:07,600
and it gets exhausted.
You get sick of each other and

993
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,320
whatever.
We do a lot of what's called fly

994
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:13,760
dates where we'll fly like 1
summer we flew to Germany, I

995
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:17,480
mean to it to, to Europe 7
different Times Now.

996
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:20,800
We could have stayed out there
for two months and just did it.

997
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:23,480
But like for festivals, pay for
the flight.

998
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:27,320
So we'll fly out for like 3-4
days, play a huge show and if I

999
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:31,040
had a festival, fly home,
recoup, go back out ten days

1000
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:34,360
later, do it again.
But either way, it's exhausting

1001
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:36,200
and you have to, you have to
stay safe.

1002
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,880
So like, do I work out?
I don't work out like a muscle

1003
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:43,120
guy, but like I I do a lot of
running for cardio.

1004
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:46,560
For me it's more stamina.
As I've gotten older, I

1005
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:48,560
definitely have like arthritis
in my hips.

1006
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:51,480
I have like arthritis in my
ankles and stuff like that.

1007
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,800
I feel fine when I start moving.
It doesn't really bother me when

1008
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:58,720
I'm playing, but the next day I
feel like an old man because you

1009
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:02,560
overexert yourself when you're
in front of all those people and

1010
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:05,400
you forget how old you're.
So I always say like, OK, I'll

1011
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:07,520
be right back.
I got to go act like a 16 year

1012
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:10,120
old for about an hour and I'll
I'll see you after the show.

1013
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:12,040
But that's pretty much what
you're doing.

1014
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:15,760
And your body doesn't heal.
You know, the way it used to,

1015
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,760
like you used to go workout and
you'd feel sore for a day if you

1016
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:20,400
did your chest and then it goes
away.

1017
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:22,360
Now it's more like two or three
days.

1018
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,680
Is that that is certain.
So when you're not active, you

1019
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:27,280
got to kind of stay on top of
your stuff.

1020
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:32,480
I, I, I eat a lot healthier.
I'm a lot more conscious of that

1021
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:36,640
stuff.
I do take some supplements, but

1022
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:40,560
nothing crazy.
That's, that's it.

1023
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:46,720
I drink a lot of coffee.
Do you have like a biggest fear

1024
00:52:46,720 --> 00:52:52,280
of like, of not being able to
like, play like, like?

1025
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:55,000
I think if I were you, I'd be
worried about getting arthritis

1026
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:58,160
in my hands.
Yeah, fortunately, none in my

1027
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:01,400
hands, a lot in my hips starting
to get in, in my feet.

1028
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:05,480
Of course, there's some stuff
with my arms at night, they'll

1029
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:08,240
go numb and stuff like that.
This is all wear and tear.

1030
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:10,440
I mean, my fingers, like they're
bent.

1031
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:13,880
They don't even like, they're
not even straight anymore, but

1032
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:16,400
they don't hurt.
Mine are mine are bent and I

1033
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:17,440
don't do that.
I don't know.

1034
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,680
But yeah, but.
You're telling me I'm a secret

1035
00:53:22,720 --> 00:53:24,200
drummer or musician?
I just never.

1036
00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:30,800
I do fear it and that's why like
as time goes on, I don't fear

1037
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,040
that I couldn't make money
playing my drums for the rest of

1038
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:36,840
my life.
But at certain levels, no.

1039
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:40,440
Like, like I could probably do
what I'm doing with Kilco for

1040
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:43,440
some time still.
But if you asked me to join like

1041
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:47,320
Metallica right now, I don't
know if I could physically pull

1042
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:52,200
off at 4:00 with Metallica,
probably be hurting pretty bad.

1043
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:54,800
So I don't think I would even
consider taking it.

1044
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:57,400
But yeah.
And as they get older and older,

1045
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:00,680
I would probably tone down those
type of big events and just do

1046
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:04,440
the smaller tanks, you know?
And unlike an athlete, I should,

1047
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:08,440
I should be able to do it for a
long time, you know, it's not

1048
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:10,160
like I'm a football player, you
know?

1049
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:13,520
So are you going to be touring
anytime soon, like in winter or

1050
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:15,600
anything?
Where are my?

1051
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:16,920
Plans.
Or you know, it's too soon to

1052
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:20,160
know.
Next summer we will have a lot

1053
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:24,760
more stuff back in Europe.
It's odd because like we've had

1054
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:28,000
more success with Kilcode
overseas, like in the States

1055
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:31,280
after all this time, we've yet
to really done like the

1056
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:33,680
Southeast.
You know, we've done California,

1057
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:38,600
we've done South Dakota, we've
done we even go to Puerto Rico

1058
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:42,680
quite often.
So it's not that we don't have

1059
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:45,400
fan bases down there.
It's just the money that's been

1060
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:48,000
offered has never really been
appeasing to go.

1061
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:53,520
But tour wise, like I think it's
it's next summer mainly is going

1062
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:58,480
to be Europe again, then maybe a
few Mexico things that I know of

1063
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:02,560
coming up in, in the winter time
like in November, stuff like

1064
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:04,880
that.
And it'll be announced when when

1065
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:08,840
it's all you know said and done,
but can't really say that yet.

1066
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:10,280
I love that.
Oh my God.

1067
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:11,720
I just thought it was something
really funny.

1068
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:15,200
So we all know I had a starter
marriage, which is what I call

1069
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,240
my first husband.
He was a starter marriage.

1070
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:22,120
But one of my my crowning
achievements or revenge thing

1071
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:26,200
was I was working with MTV Films
and it was like when Beavis and

1072
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:28,400
Butthead existed.
Another thing that couldn't

1073
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:30,480
probably exist in today's world.
Loved that.

1074
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:39,920
Show but he he was a in in the
art department on come on feel

1075
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:43,400
the noise and their actor didn't
show up that day.

1076
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:47,680
So he ended up my starter
husband sort of marriage.

1077
00:55:47,720 --> 00:55:50,320
He ended up being in the video.
He's the guy, get shook on the

1078
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:52,240
bed and then be.
The Quiet Riot.

1079
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:56,400
Video yeah, yeah.
And Beavis and Butt Head.

1080
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:00,920
Yeah, they, they rag on him.
So everyone knew at MTV that I

1081
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:04,040
was getting divorced and he was
unpleasant at best.

1082
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:06,360
That's like, he was a total
anyway.

1083
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:09,600
But, you know, I liked broken
people then.

1084
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:13,520
So anyway, so there's this whole
video and they gave it to me

1085
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:16,160
like I used to have it, like on
tape, but it's Beavis and

1086
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:19,120
Butthead making fun of him.
They're like, oh, look at that

1087
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:20,680
idiot.
Just make, look at.

1088
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:22,600
He's such an ass anyway.
And I was like my crowning

1089
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:25,920
achievement of my time at MTV
Films.

1090
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:28,920
But anyway, yeah.
I mean, now I'll.

1091
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:30,440
Find it.
I'm sure it's on YouTube.

1092
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:34,080
YouTube and.
Find this video Yeah.

1093
00:56:34,240 --> 00:56:37,880
We'll have to.
So we will definitely leave the

1094
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:43,200
killcode Spotify stuff here.
So, you know, that's important

1095
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:44,800
and where they can find you on
YouTube.

1096
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:46,800
So thank you, Rob, so much for
being here.

1097
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:50,040
We know this is how I like to
end on my podcast, which is my

1098
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:52,680
favorite question.
Drum roll.

1099
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:54,800
Come on, give me my drum roll.
You're the drummer.

1100
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:59,400
Thank you.
If you came with a warning

1101
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:02,280
label, what would it be?
Oh, I like that.

1102
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:06,240
Well, let's see, can I have a
couple of warning labels?

1103
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,640
Can I go for it Let?
Me think all right, well, I

1104
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:14,120
would first try saying and this
is goes on in life a lot like

1105
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:20,360
don't mistake I guess my
kindness being humbleness and a

1106
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:23,560
silly sense of humor for
weakness at any point in time.

1107
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:29,640
Don't mistake me not jumping
into a conversation and being a

1108
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:33,480
good listener for like not
already knowing what to do.

1109
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:38,080
I like to listen to people and,
and let them kind of in, in a

1110
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:40,880
way it's a good thing because I,
I guess it's really not a

1111
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:42,600
warning.
It's, it's kind of like I'm my,

1112
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:45,080
I'm man enough to want to hear
everybody else's.

1113
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:47,120
Even though I may know and have
experience.

1114
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:50,960
I, I like listening to other
people's point of views because

1115
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:55,000
they might be smarter than me.
And the only other one was,

1116
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:59,080
which I was given by a bunch of
people aside from this crazy

1117
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:03,200
nickname of mine.
They all say I'm 140 lbs of

1118
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:05,680
sheer terror.
So that's my warning, right?

1119
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:09,960
I like that.
Yeah, that one is definitely

1120
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:12,080
true.
Yeah, you're totally true.

1121
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:14,960
I love that.
It's so good to connect with.

1122
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:17,040
You, Oh my God, yes, it was so
good.

1123
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:20,400
We have to we have to stay in
touch and I can't wait.

1124
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:22,920
I can't wait to to see you
again.

1125
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:25,200
And it was really good.
I'm so happy you called me and

1126
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:28,480
best of luck with your podcast
and any way I can help let me

1127
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:28,640
know.