Oscar Producer Left It All to Film a War | Bob Dogus

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So welcome to this episode of
the Holly Hughes Podcast.

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I am exceedingly excited and
slightly sweating, honestly, to

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interview today's guest, who is
Bob Degas, who is a director, a

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producer, A screenwriter.
He was one of my mentors way

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back in the day.
So I feel like I'm 23 again.

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It's what I told him before we
started recording.

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He makes home in New York, in
LA, in Colorado.

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I get it right.
And one of my favorite things

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about his own bio on his website
is he followed the yellow brick

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road of those old Kodak yellow
orange boxes from New York to LA

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to make his dream come true.
And today we're going to explore

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what that kind of dream actually
is and what it became.

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So thank you for coming today,
Bob.

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Yeah, I'm excited to be here.
It's like a old reunion from

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from a long time ago, so.
It's great.

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Whoop, whoop, Chanticleer.
I have so much I'm so fascinated

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about with your career
trajectory, but I am so curious

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about how you see story because
you are a producer and a

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director and a screenwriter.
I think those perspectives are

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quite different and I'm
wondering what is the most

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innate way that you feel and
want to express stories?

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Two things come to mind.
So first would be a bigger thing

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that I really believe that the
stories we tell ourselves as a

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society shape who that society
is in what that society becomes.

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And so if I look at a lot of the
movies that I was involved in

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years ago, there's ones that I
don't think send the right

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message or empower people in the
right way.

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So I think as storytellers, we
have a responsibility to tell

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stories that help all of us in
the audience watching them see

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their best and highest purpose.
And so that's the more creative

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background, the more technical
thing is that I think stories

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for me thematically come through
structure.

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I really, for whatever reason,
gravitate towards structure and

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then can build this sort of
creativity on top of that.

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That's fascinating.
What do you mean by structure?

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Do you mean the process of
telling the story or the

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structure of the story?
I think it's both things.

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I think it when you're thinking
about story, it's easy to

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explain it this way.
If you think of The Wizard of Oz

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and you think of the end of The
Wizard of Oz and Dorothy comes

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back to Kansas and what is her
big realization, but that

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there's no place like home and
she's not going to leave home.

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So structurally, that means that
the beginning of the story has

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to start in an opposite place,
which is what is she doing in

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that movie.
She's trying to get as far away

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from home as she can so far,
even over the Rainbow.

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So by knowing that's your
journey, you can then arc a

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really powerful journey for an
audience.

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If you don't know the ending,
then it's hard to position what

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the beginning of the movie's
about.

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So for me, that's why I like to
start with structure first.

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I know there's other people who
really like to start with

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character first.
I love that when I start writing

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a story, I start at an emotional
truth and then I wind my way

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forward and back to see what is
the beginning and what is the

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end.
So I can't really be motivated

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until like I am connected in
some honest way, which I think

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is like what you were talking
about storytelling, Which is

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fascinating because as a person
who I think was quite successful

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in Hollywood in LA back in the
day, right in the 90s, like when

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it was a very different animal
than I think it is now.

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Like we had low budget movies
where people could learn the

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craft and I, I don't know that
that exists anymore.

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Like I gave up my producers
Guild membership, which was such

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a ego thing for me.
I was like, oh, I worked so hard

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to get that.
And when I let it go and it was

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part of my owning all of my
creativity.

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It was part of me taking all of
my stories and being able to

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like, at least craft them in a
way that I was no longer chasing

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a younger version of me's idea
of what it needed to be and how

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it needed to be.
So that was an interesting ego

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reckoning.
But when we worked together, you

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had already been there.
You were.

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You are, I'm assuming because
you still feel the same way,

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very direct, dry and driven.
And personality wise, how much

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playing the game did you have to
do to kind of get ahead or could

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your work stand on its own?
I think when I knew you then, I

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didn't even know who I was.
I mean, I was just clueless

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about so many things, practical
business things, but then more,

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what I'm even talking about is
who I am and in what is

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important to me.
In there was that Hollywood

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period, and then I kind of took
the spiritual walk into a bunch

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of different paths that now on
the other side of that, looking

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back at that era, there was so
much I didn't know about about

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anything.
There was a sense of the movie

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that you're working on is so
important.

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Like it was so, so important.
Yes, it was.

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And I find that place hard to
find now.

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And I can find it in, you know,
I, I directed a movie that we're

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just finishing called Yogis of
Ukraine.

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And it's about these 35 women in
Ukraine, these amazing, amazing

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women.
And it's a story about war told

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by women.
And I can get excited about

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being the vehicle to tell their
story and bring their story out

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to the world.
But that's very different than

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who I was at Chanticleer and
after Chanticleer and where the

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movie was the whole world.
And I remember coming back from

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Ukraine in the middle of a war
with these extraordinarily

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amazing women and coming back to
the US And it was when Barbie

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opened.
Oh, jeez.

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And I just thought, Oh my God,
we're so clueless.

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Here we are celebrating this
doll in this pink movie.

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In here are these real heroes,
female heroes who have so much

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that they've learned during this
war to share with the world.

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So for me, that Hollywood era of
my 20s and 30s, it's almost like

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a different lifetime or a
different person.

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For sure.
I think also my remembrance of

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you was like, I got to be your
assistant on a movie, but you

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were thoughtful.
You were dedicated.

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I also think Chanticleer was
such an evil machine, right?

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It really taught you the horror
of Hollywood.

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But I think what was fascinating
about that era was the inability

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for any grace and your life now
and my life now are very much

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filled with offering grace and
vulnerability.

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And I wonder like what the
journey of the amazing

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deadlines, the working 20 plus
hours a day which you no one

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really believes, the hustle and
the pressure of getting all

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those shots in the can, I don't
even know pose that well.

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But and then all of that after
is such a different way to have

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your nervous system be.
So when I walked away, I think

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it took me 3 years to even enjoy
a movie because all I could see

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when I watched was I know that
location, I know how much that

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cost, I know the trucks are
parked here, I know we need

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extra St.
Like my brain went into line

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producing mode or problem
solving and I realized like I

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went that way even though I
always wanted to be creative

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just because my own personal
trauma.

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I was like, oh I know this
trauma let me step into it.

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Did you have any reckoning of
yourself that way as well?

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I didn't know this then, but I
think the trauma of how I grew

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up made the trauma of Hollywood
comfortable.

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I mean, that the stories that
you read about in newspapers

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with people throwing phones at
you and chairs at you across the

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room and screaming at you, that
was just normal because that was

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kind of the household I grew up
in.

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I guess you just accepted it.
And then I think there were

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occasional movies where
everybody kind of realized, oh,

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we're making something special
here.

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Like The Pleasantville was like
that.

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We realized we had this rare
opportunity to tell a really

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powerful story.
Everyone showed up with their

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best selves to make that movie.
But a lot of times you were, I

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think, excited to work on a
movie because that's what you

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wanted to do.
Like I said at the beginning of

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what messages is sending to the
world, How am I helping people

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discover their best selves were
secondary.

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So what was the moment for you
that made you switch?

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Because from an outside
perspective, looking in, there

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you were, you came in, you
worked your way up pretty

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quickly.
New Line was huge back then and

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you got to do Pleasantville And
what was the 10 Seabiscuit?

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You mean you did major movies
that were well made, you had a

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really good reputation.
I don't know if you know that,

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but you had a very good
reputation of being quite fair

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and reasonable to work with,
which is, I mean, how many

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people can say that?
And then you walked away like if

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people are just looking from the
way outside in.

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So I'm like curious what the new
line machine was like that gave

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you space to then evaluate
yourself.

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You know, New Line was was the
smallest studio.

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It was this upstart studio.
So it had similar energy to

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Chanticleer in that I think it
was a little bit understaffed.

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I think if you said you could do
something, they said go do it.

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And that was a really good
environment to grow.

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But it also was bigger and it
had all of the toxic dynamics of

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all of Hollywood.
I think for me, after working

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seven days a week, 16 hours a
day for so many years, more than

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a decade, I got burned out on
it.

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And that really started me on a
journey.

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It was around Seabiscuit, and I
really wanted to tell different

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stories.
I really wanted to tell stories

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that would help people become
the best versions of themselves.

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And this wasn't one day and the
next day, but it ultimately took

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me on a journey into exploring
spirituality, into exploring

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energy, into exploring
consciousness.

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And around that time there was
911.

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So the industry kind of stopped
for that year.

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Those things kind of pushed me
on another journey.

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And then I think you're talk
about Claire, Claire audio, all

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those Claire, Claire Sentient,
all those sorts of.

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Things, yeah.
And all those things.

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It's so fun.
I think there was a process of

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listening to that that took
years to be able to hear it not

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and and I you would use it on
sets, but I didn't know I was

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using it.
And I also didn't tune into the

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stations clearly enough where
now I hear it within 5 or 6

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minutes.
I listen, where is Then it would

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have taken a much longer period
of time.

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I love that.
I think I did too.

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So as like an empath and coming
out of an alcoholic home, right.

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So you're just wired.
You're wired for that.

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And you're, I was always trying
to guess what someone needed so

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that the upset wouldn't come,
the disappointment wouldn't

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come.
And I think people who survive

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in LA learned to live with that.
And my breaking point was there

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were many women who became
bitter and mean in the industry,

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and they weren't helpful to
other women when I was there.

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They were even meaner than the
men sometimes.

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And I heard myself one day and I
sounded like one of them.

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And I talk about my starter
marriage and I was like, I am

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becoming what isn't me.
And I had an epiphany, like, I

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can't live like this.
I don't want to become what I

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hate.
That's when I left LA and people

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were like, you can't leave now.
You're just kind of like hitting

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the groove.
And I was like, can I though?

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Like, can I?
Because I showed up here not

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knowing anyone, I guess I can
leave knowing.

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And I think part of the detox
and the heartbreak of it was

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once I became a person who
couldn't employ all these people

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who I thought were my friends,
all those friendships, of

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course, disappeared because I
was of no use.

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And that evaluation was brutal.
That was really brutal.

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That that thing almost word for
word was my experience because I

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switched from I was producing
and I had always thought I would

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be a cinematographer and
director, something creative.

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And I ended up in producing and
line producing because I was

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very, very good at it.
And then I kept trying to get

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out of it and I kept being
offered more money to keep doing

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the job.
And so I would do another job

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and another job in it.
Some point I decided, OK, that's

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it.
I'm, I'm going to just switch to

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directing, writing my own stuff,
directing my own stuff.

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And I stopped being the person
who would hire people and all

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those people who I thought were
my friends weren't.

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And that was like the floor fell
out at that point because

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everything I had thought was
going on wasn't.

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And then I actually did learn
who my friends were.

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And those were actually people I
hadn't even seen in in the other

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structure.
But but word for word, I know

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00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,720
exactly what you're saying
because that was my experience.

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Yeah, it's a fascinating and
painful thing.

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I mean, like one of my worst
favorite stories about at the

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00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:20,400
end of a friendship was a friend
of mine's getting married back

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00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:24,760
in LA So I hop on a flight and
my makeup artist air quote

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00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:26,360
friend was supposed to come get
me.

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00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,680
She just never picked me up.
Welcome to Hollywood.

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So someone I'd known for like 18
years, right?

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15 years.
I was like, yeah, I'm coming to

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00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:38,200
get you.
And then just didn't.

240
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,640
That was her way of saying we're
not friends anymore.

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00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,280
So I was like, oh, I guess it's
good that I am not here.

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00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:50,960
I did move back to LA because
911 happened and I didn't want

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00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:53,920
to go back to New York.
My joke is I don't identify as a

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00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:55,400
New Yorker.
Even then, that's where I was

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00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:58,840
like born and like I grew up way
out on Long Island.

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00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:03,320
It's just never my thing.
I felt like my weird was so not

247
00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,280
weird in LA that that part was
easy for me.

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So I went back and that's when
reality TV started.

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And some of my really old
friends were like, well, do you

250
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:14,920
want to just coordinate our
show?

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00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,200
I was like, yeah, but you have
to let me produce because I left

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00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,240
being a producer, but I just
need a job.

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It's fine.
But then the same thing

254
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,280
happened.
I pitched them a dancing show

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00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:25,680
because I love dancing.
I was like, this is what I want

256
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,160
to do this, this and this.
And the EP of the Food Network

257
00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,360
show was like, no, I'm like,
yeah, but if you don't want to

258
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:32,880
do it, can you introduce me to
whoever?

259
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:34,800
Because I can make this happen,
right?

260
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,120
And they're like, no, no, no one
wants it in two years later,

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00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,200
dancing, show, dancing, show,
dancing show.

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00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,760
And that was one of my also
moments where I was like, did I

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00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,080
not fight hard enough because I
just was still beaten down?

264
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,280
Or was God giving me a gift and
saying move on?

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00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,440
I don't know.
I think when I'm in a good mood,

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00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,840
God was giving you a gift and
saying move on.

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00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:00,160
I'm feeling not good.
Then it's the other answer.

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00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,200
But think about what you're
doing now and how your podcast

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00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,840
is impacting people and changing
live.

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00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:10,360
That's you're able to do the
podcast because of the training

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00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:15,560
and what you did in LA And so I
think these things are

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00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,360
evolutionary.
I look at Los Angeles in my time

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00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:22,400
there as a training period for
what I did after it.

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00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:29,200
I know when I went to Ukraine, I
was approached by someone to

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00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,880
edit some social media footage
because I like editing.

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00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,560
I'm a very good editor.
And in this call, I learned

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00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,960
about these women in Ukraine who
are on the front lines working

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00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,160
with soldiers, doing yoga.
And I went, wait, stop.

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00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,000
What?
What, what did you just say?

280
00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,240
And then I said, someone needs
to make a film about that.

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00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,120
And this person said, well, I'm
going to Ukraine in two days.

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Do you want to come?
And I, and I said, no, I don't.

283
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:57,800
I literally didn't even know
where Ukraine was.

284
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:04,040
And that night, again, these
voices, these Claire audience,

285
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:08,040
Claire, all those voices, I had
this very clear sense.

286
00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:10,520
Excuse me, you're the one who's
supposed to go.

287
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:15,640
And I had been doing all of this
sort of extreme travelling, like

288
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,480
into the jungles of Peru, into
Bhutan.

289
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,480
And everything was packed to
leave.

290
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,400
Like, I literally almost could
pick up my suitcases.

291
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,640
And I thought, I know how to do
cinematography.

292
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:32,400
I know how to create a situation
to talk to these women that will

293
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:36,440
be safe.
And if I don't go, no one will

294
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,360
tell their story.
And so the next day, I called

295
00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,880
this guy and said, OK, I'll go.
And three days later, I was in

296
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:48,280
Ukraine.
That training that we got in LA

297
00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:52,520
may be challenging as it was.
It makes the things we're doing

298
00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:57,760
now easier because it expanded
our bandwidth so much, if that

299
00:17:57,760 --> 00:17:59,200
makes sense.
It does.

300
00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:03,240
I love how your starting points
are so similar to mine where

301
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,080
it's like, did you ask me to
what?

302
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:09,280
OK, because I say my driving
force in my life really is my

303
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,120
curiosity.
I'm curious about things and it

304
00:18:12,120 --> 00:18:15,400
makes me want to learn and dive
in and peel it apart and

305
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:19,160
experience it.
I think again, like that's how I

306
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:22,160
do story as well.
I have to say, you just said

307
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,760
that you are able to make safe
space.

308
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,640
Like this will make me cry
because I watched a lot of what

309
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:30,960
you have available on the OES of
Ukraine.

310
00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:39,000
See, I'm going to cry to see
safety on camera, like that

311
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:45,040
amount of honesty and care while
being real about what is going

312
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:49,840
on is like, so antithetical to
storytelling in LA, right?

313
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,600
The performative carpet, which
is part of the business that

314
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,960
everyone has to cheer.
I really can't stop crying.

315
00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,360
It's just because I don't know,
like I am very awkward in front

316
00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:02,200
of camera unless I'm just
talking to someone.

317
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,240
Like I'm always trying to figure
out social media, like how do I

318
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:09,240
talk to you and convey me?
But I am also very protective of

319
00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,600
who I'll let see that part.
I don't, I don't let that in.

320
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,960
So when these women look at
camera, when I'm seeing the

321
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,840
victims of bombings and these
men who are missing limbs and

322
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,760
are I'm going to call it yoga,
holy space because like, I've

323
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:25,920
done yoga for a long time,
right?

324
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:30,960
So you're in this space of
oneness that these guys have

325
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:32,920
goosebumps.
It's quite powerful.

326
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:37,520
It's beautifully unnerving and
welcoming at the same time.

327
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:40,920
Yeah.
So the funny story is we get to

328
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,160
Ukraine and there's a whole long
story about how you get to

329
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:48,040
Ukraine, but takes four days.
So we get to Ukraine and we're

330
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:50,280
staying in Kharkiv, which is
right on the frontline of the

331
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,440
war.
And the Americans I'm with, we

332
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,080
finally can sleep and we have a
lovely night.

333
00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,520
It's a distant thunderstorms and
it's so nice.

334
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,800
And we just fall asleep to the
Thunder.

335
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,760
And then we wake up in the
morning and we discover, no,

336
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,040
that was actually not Thunder
that was bombed.

337
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,760
So that's the the funny story.
But Speaking of the safe space,

338
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:17,160
I really quickly had the sense
that these women really had

339
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,920
something to tell the world and
share with the world.

340
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:25,920
They had figured out something.
Very holy, very spiritual that

341
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,280
they wanted to share.
And for some reason I was the

342
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,480
conduit for that.
And so the thing for me was get

343
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,160
out of the way, set up a place
where they can talk.

344
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,320
The interviews were done in
either Ukrainian or Russian,

345
00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,600
depending where in Ukraine I
was.

346
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:43,760
I didn't know what they were
saying.

347
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:48,680
So all I could do was feel how
truthful they were being.

348
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:54,560
And what what became frightening
for me was not the bombs because

349
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,080
the files were too big.
I couldn't upload them.

350
00:20:57,360 --> 00:21:00,160
I needed to physically get them
out of Ukraine until I could

351
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,560
back them up.
That was really the urgency for

352
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:05,960
me.
But really, living where you

353
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,760
might die, this conversation
right now that you and I are

354
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:15,480
having is incredibly precious
because one of us might not be

355
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,640
here in two hours.
And that changes everything.

356
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,960
And they've had to, I guess,
become aware of what's an

357
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,640
intellectual concept for us.
They live it, which is this

358
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:31,680
present moment is precious.
So that was what the journey

359
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,640
was.
And then I didn't know even what

360
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,760
they were saying till months
later when we finally were able

361
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,040
to do the subtitle translation.
I love that.

362
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:45,200
The other thing that I find
amazingly fascinating is that I

363
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:49,320
watch a lot of foreign shows.
I watch a lot of, I read a lot

364
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:54,000
of TV is what I tell people.
So while I was watching that, I

365
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,280
don't know if it's like my
ability to multitask, to be able

366
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,080
to see the eyes and the stories
while reading.

367
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:06,240
But it's also a talent to create
and share story in other

368
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,040
language, especially when it's
not yours, but sharing the truth

369
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,800
and trusting that and knowing
that people are going to read

370
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,840
and they might miss something.
So how do you go about editing

371
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:18,560
that way?
Do you have like a translator

372
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,800
next to you?
So when you speak, you have

373
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:27,320
energy that people can feel that
you don't get.

374
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,160
It's that whole conversation.
When you're texting, you're

375
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,800
missing a whole chunk of the
conversation, so there's the

376
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:38,240
energy of what they're speaking.
Then the Ukrainian language or

377
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,920
English, has a specific word
order.

378
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:43,840
Ukrainian does not share word
order.

379
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,560
Word order is not important in
the way it is in English.

380
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:50,160
So that made editing really
challenging because I couldn't

381
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,440
tell where the ends of the
sentences were.

382
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,200
So I had to feel where the ends
of the sentences were.

383
00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:02,200
And then I worked with the first
set of translations that were

384
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:06,760
done by the Ukrainians that were
limited to their knowledge of

385
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,320
English.
So that was the kind of the

386
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:15,280
first pass was was getting that.
And then the subtitles went

387
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:24,120
through multiple revisions until
AI and AI was really able to

388
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:30,000
look at the entire thing that
was being said and then suggest

389
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:36,360
subtle word changes that would
be able to say the same thing

390
00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:40,120
but with fewer words.
So there were a number of passes

391
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:45,360
where we worked on the subtitles
so that we could condense down

392
00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:49,480
what was saying.
And I think I knew early on,

393
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,200
because I watch a lot of
international films, that

394
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,800
there's a powerful thing when
you're reading and watching

395
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,080
because you're using different
parts of your brain.

396
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:04,080
So that was how to edit the
movie such that you had time to

397
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:08,200
read the subtitles, you had time
to take in what these women were

398
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:12,080
saying.
You could then also look at the,

399
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,640
you know, the buildings and the
other sorts of things.

400
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:19,440
But the subtitles were a huge,
huge, monumental process.

401
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,040
That was a learning curve.
I shared your website about the

402
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,800
movie with my Ukrainian friend.
So she's like, amazing.

403
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,080
I was like, yeah, I thought, I
thought she's like one of the

404
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,040
kindest people.
We, there's actually quite a

405
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,320
number of Ukrainians here in
Charlotte now.

406
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,560
There's like quite an
interesting population that

407
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,840
we've met.
So that was kind of cool.

408
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:45,680
That is the beauty of connecting
with someone not like you is to

409
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,200
like learn and then realize how
much you may have in common

410
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,480
still that that humanity that
you keep talking about.

411
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,440
So do you think you're going to
keep doing this?

412
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:59,080
Like where are you in the
process with Yogis of Ukraine?

413
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,400
We just finished recording the
orchestra score.

414
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,520
There's a woman, her name is
Sandrine Ruda, and she's a

415
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,760
female film composer, which is
probably one of the rarest

416
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:15,040
things in the entire world.
And I met her four years ago,

417
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,960
and I knew immediately she was
who I wanted to write the score.

418
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,200
And she fell in love with the
movie, and she wrote this

419
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,680
gorgeous score that took us a
year and a half to raise the

420
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,080
money to record with an
orchestra.

421
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:32,400
And the music is very important
because you have the energy of

422
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,360
what the women are saying that
you feel.

423
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,080
You have the subtitles that's
giving you the gist of what

424
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:41,080
they're saying.
But the music is the missing

425
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,280
piece to that.
So it was really important to me

426
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:49,640
to really have a musical score
that was helping to support the

427
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,680
stories these women were
telling.

428
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,440
And so we just two weeks ago
finished recording the orchestra

429
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,320
and we're in the process of
mixing the music.

430
00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:03,800
And then we need to raise the
money to mix the movie, do the

431
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:07,640
color correction.
And so that's where we are with

432
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,400
the with the movie, but it's
really, I've never had an

433
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,840
experience.
We've done test screenings all

434
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:19,520
around the world, from Berlin to
London to Kiev to Mexico to

435
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,680
Costa Rica and then around the
United States.

436
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,240
And I've never had a movie where
the audience stays two hours

437
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,240
after the screening to talk
about what they experienced.

438
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,840
And so that really keyed us
into, oh, this is really

439
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,560
actually, people are really
connecting with this.

440
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,200
And that was the genesis of the
book because the movies 90

441
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,560
minutes or 96 minutes, and I
have 35 hours of interviews with

442
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,960
these women.
So the audiences were like,

443
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,600
where can we find out more?
And that became the idea of my

444
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,440
writing a book about that's
checkerboards their stories.

445
00:26:55,520 --> 00:27:01,120
And then my sort of the American
goes to Ukraine stories.

446
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:05,760
And that was just a way to
really expand on it.

447
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,200
And then there was an
interesting thing that I didn't

448
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,400
expect.
The book is in multiple

449
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,440
languages and from the
Ukrainians perspective, from

450
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,360
these women's perspective, the
book is extremely valuable

451
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:20,440
because it's a printed version
of their story that won't be

452
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,280
lost.
And I got letters from a number

453
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,160
of them saying that this is one
of the most precious things

454
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,600
because they now know that their
story and what this will make me

455
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,280
cry that they're going through,
we'll be told so.

456
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,240
So it's, it's been this very
spiritual journey.

457
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,960
All because you said yes.
Yeah, rare for me to say yes,

458
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,000
but yes, because I said yes.
It Is it rare for you to say

459
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:44,600
yes?
Is it?

460
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:49,360
I always say no first, and I've
gotten better at correcting my

461
00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:50,720
no.
My Yeah.

462
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:51,840
Because do you want to go to
Ukraine?

463
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,320
No.
Next day.

464
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,040
OK, I'll go.
I fell in love with it, and then

465
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,320
I wanted to edit the movie
there.

466
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,320
I was convinced I needed to go,
and I couldn't figure out how to

467
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,840
get the editing equipment there.
And so it didn't happen.

468
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,600
But then when we took the movie
there last summer to screen it

469
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,320
for the women because I wanted
to make sure they were happy

470
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:15,520
with what the movie was saying.
And as soon as we got there, all

471
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,480
the other producers like, oh, I
see why you wanted to come here

472
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,120
to edit.
Because it's a gorgeous city.

473
00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:24,800
And if you're somebody who feels
energy, it's one of the most

474
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,400
astoundingly beautiful,
energetic places I've been,

475
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,200
especially but the whole
country.

476
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,400
Now I'm going to have to put it
on my list, but I'll wait a

477
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,760
little longer.
Just personally, if you're

478
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,280
enjoying the stories about my
friends from all over the world,

479
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,640
I know you're going to love an
upcoming episode with Tara

480
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,560
Konigan.
She is an Irish Sessions

481
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,800
musician and her podcast is
Sessions Etiquette.

482
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,480
Go check her out if you're at a
transition point in your life

483
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,120
and you're wondering how do I go
from point A to point B?

484
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,880
I'm tired of being defined by
what other people think of me.

485
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,200
Read my book Real Not perfect.
How to become your happy,

486
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,840
Authentic self.
It's a step by step guide to

487
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,920
help you reclaim your voice,
your passion and yourself worth.

488
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,800
Available at all booksellers and
in the links below.

489
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,240
So how did you just show up in a
yoga class?

490
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,080
What got you on the spiritual
journey?

491
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,080
I was in a shitty apartment in
Brentwood, although I loved my

492
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,320
apartment and I got a postcard
come to yoga class and I could

493
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,880
walk to it and that's what got
me started.

494
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,160
Totally random.
I've done yoga for about 15

495
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:32,320
years, both Kundalini yoga and
Hatha through Jivamukta Yoga.

496
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:36,120
It when I was in New York City,
and those were obviously very

497
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:41,080
opening to me in introducing
Hinduism and other world

498
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:46,240
traditions to me, Buddhism.
But I think the biggest thing

499
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,240
for me was I was invited to a
friend's 40th birthday party and

500
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:55,440
she wanted to do ayahuasca.
And so my first reaction was no.

501
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,520
Obviously that's your go to now
I know.

502
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:00,960
And the next day I said, OK,
I'll go.

503
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,280
And it really was.
I ended up ultimately going down

504
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,880
to Peru and over the course of
the time I was doing ayahuasca,

505
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,880
I did almost 100 nights and you
know.

506
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,400
Over of Iowa, you did 100 nights
of.

507
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,880
Ayahuasca.
Shut the front door.

508
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,200
Every one of the experiences was
horrible.

509
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,640
They just were like.
You should have said no sooner.

510
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,800
But it was interesting though,
the final experience.

511
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,760
I'm down in Peru and I'm having
this horrible experience.

512
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:40,560
And I'm curled up like a child.
And you're kind of your

513
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,280
consciousness is separated.
So I'm sort of looking at myself

514
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,680
and I'm aware that I'm in this
cowering position.

515
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,040
And I thought, wait a minute, I
know I'm in an extremely safe

516
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,240
space.
I've been down here a number of

517
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:52,760
times.
It's a very safe place.

518
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,520
I am.
Why am I cowering?

519
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:59,280
And then I went and I realized,
oh, my father's beating me.

520
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:05,440
And then I thought, well, that
was like 20-30 years ago, 40

521
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,800
years ago, so that's not
happening now, so I need to

522
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,840
rewrite that.
And then I thought maybe I need

523
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,320
to hug myself.
And so I had my arms up, 'cause

524
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,720
that's lying on my back.
And I hugged myself.

525
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,400
And there's a point, especially
in Peru, where the ceremony

526
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:25,400
comes to an end.
And as soon as I touched myself

527
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,320
in a hug, ceremony came to an
end because I had learned the

528
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,680
lesson that probably took all
that time to learn.

529
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:36,160
And then like the next day or
the next day after that, I was

530
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,640
told, OK, you're done.
No more ayahuasca, you're done.

531
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,000
And that was the end of it.
But it, I think it, it really

532
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,240
prepared me to be able to go to
Ukraine without fear.

533
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,560
It prepared me to be able to
listen to these women.

534
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,520
It really changed me from the me
who was in Hollywood to the me

535
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,760
now.
It was a very big, big journey.

536
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,400
The thing that was so
interesting in Peru was you

537
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,760
could feel the shaman holding
the space.

538
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,200
So the space was extremely
stable.

539
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,680
And then you could have these
realizations that took you from

540
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,760
where you were to the next
place.

541
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,080
But I counter that with
experiences sitting in the

542
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:20,080
United States and other places
where they couldn't hold the

543
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,280
space.
So that's where I think

544
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,160
ayahuasca is very powerful and
useful.

545
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,560
Who you sit with is really
critical.

546
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,560
We were, we were way, way, way,
way in the jungle where there

547
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:35,360
was no electricity, except there
was electricity, which was very

548
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,760
sad.
They had solar panels which

549
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,120
allowed them to charge cell
phones and allowed them to get

550
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:43,680
Internet.
You know, I was down there with

551
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:48,560
a group of Americans the first
time and we're like, no, no, you

552
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,920
don't understand.
Don't let that come here.

553
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,120
So I want to go back to your
yogi's though, so there's a guru

554
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:57,520
there.
Do you connect with her?

555
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,120
Are you in touch with her or was
that just part of the experience

556
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,920
of shooting the Do you call it a
documentary?

557
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,160
I mean, I would.
Yeah, it's a documentary.

558
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,520
I had the sense I'm supposed to
go make this movie.

559
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,000
And so I I go to Ukraine.
It's a long trip.

560
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,880
You have to fly to London.
You fly to Warsaw, then you take

561
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,560
an 18 hour train from Warsaw to
Kiev.

562
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:24,880
And when I met Lacia, who is
the, the film centers around

563
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,040
her, but there's a whole group
of women doing it.

564
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:31,480
But there was this boy, it was
like a soul recognition or it

565
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,640
was like, oh, OK, now we're here
doing this.

566
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:40,400
Lacia really helped me meet the
because I met 250 of these women

567
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:45,680
who are the 35 I'm interviewing.
And so she guided me through

568
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,680
this.
And then I talked to the

569
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,440
different women and I took a
couple trips to Ukraine to film

570
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,560
them.
And I'm went with them.

571
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,280
They had a the yoga festival in
France.

572
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:02,240
And I, on another trip, went and
filmed the yoga festival in

573
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,280
France.
It's not in the movie, but I

574
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,800
filmed it with them.
And when I was in France, I had

575
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,480
by this point in time, gotten to
know these women really pretty

576
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,199
well.
And I really cared about them.

577
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:17,719
And I had this very male
American sense about like, I

578
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,920
can't let these women go back to
this war.

579
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,199
And I was really upset about it.
And I was crying, and I had

580
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:25,600
this.
I knew it was a fantasy, but a

581
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,320
fantasy, like we could all run
off to the South of France and

582
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,159
they'd be safe.
But I'm upset that I have to say

583
00:34:31,159 --> 00:34:34,639
goodbye to them and send them
back to this war where they

584
00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:37,440
might die.
And this one night, there were

585
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,560
five or six of them talking to
me.

586
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,920
And one of them said, Bob, this
is a quote.

587
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:48,040
We have trained lifetimes to be
in this dark place, to be able

588
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,760
to bring light to it.
We want to go back.

589
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,440
So I was like, OK, you're way
more advanced than me.

590
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,640
Making me cry again.
You're making me cry.

591
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,800
Well, it was funny because we
cried.

592
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,800
Like the joke is that they were
like, what's wrong with all

593
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,040
these American men who are
constantly crying?

594
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,720
But there is this energy that is
in this movie.

595
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,040
There is the energy of this
women in there.

596
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,960
It's in Ukraine of this
spiritual awakening, and the

597
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,600
film is very much about women
taking leadership and women

598
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:27,320
stepping into leadership not on
male terms, which was those

599
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,800
women in Hollywood who had a
really hard time getting into a

600
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,560
position of power and then had
to yield that power as men.

601
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:42,280
But these women in Ukraine are
powerful as women, feminine,

602
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,160
using their feminine power.
And that's also a message of the

603
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,000
movie.
So I don't talk to all of them,

604
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:49,520
but I probably talk to half of
them.

605
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:54,360
And they're very interested in
the progress of the movie that I

606
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,000
think has taken longer than they
would have expected.

607
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,240
But.
Because it's a movie, I think I

608
00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:02,720
call that power of women.
Like when I coach people or like

609
00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:04,560
when I'm giving an intuitive
healing.

610
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,920
I call it surrender and a lot of
women fight me on that word,

611
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:10,480
right.
What do you mean surrender means

612
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:12,120
weakness?
I'm like, it doesn't mean that.

613
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:18,040
It means letting go of the idea
of what it should look like.

614
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,160
This is something I struggle
with obviously, because I could

615
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,760
still be, I used to say I'm type
A+.

616
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,480
Now I'm a minus.
When I work, I forget it.

617
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,360
I'm focused.
And when I don't work now

618
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,600
though, I'm like a nothing.
And that took me forever to

619
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,040
learn how to not work right,
just to relax.

620
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,320
But when you surrender, you're
letting go of what you don't

621
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:41,040
have control over, and you're
welcoming in a powerful healing

622
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:46,120
that soothes you.
So you're not fighting.

623
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,760
You can be that soothing thing,
and it doesn't mean that you

624
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:50,280
don't have the ability to do all
the others.

625
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:55,880
But it's like this subtle shift
of releasing the idea of control

626
00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:00,240
of how it's going to be ongoing
lesson in this life for me.

627
00:37:00,240 --> 00:37:01,320
Like this is how it's going to
be.

628
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:02,880
This is what I'm going to do,
and this is how it's going to

629
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,400
turn out.
And then it's like, haha, it's

630
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,280
like, no, it never works that
way ever.

631
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,520
But I still start like, that's
my little hiccup.

632
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,120
I'm so curious when I'll get
that one through my thick skull.

633
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:16,840
But the idea of surrender and
seeing the vulnerability that

634
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:21,560
they hold and that you hold in
this movie, again, for the

635
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,880
people, it's war.
Like in America, I don't think

636
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,880
we understand the war because we
think of the political

637
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,640
maneuvering, but not the humans,
not the people.

638
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,240
We're losing our humanity a
little too fast.

639
00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:37,200
And I often ask the world
because I pretty much pray

640
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,360
everyday and I definitely pray
before I go to bed.

641
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,080
Like I give gratitude and I
thank you for whatever my

642
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,560
health, thank you for my like
all the things because I know

643
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,320
what it's like not to have.
So I'm just like, why did I

644
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,040
choose?
Now this ride is crazy.

645
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:57,200
And then I have to go back to my
sarcasm and deflective

646
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,480
mechanisms.
I was like, before I was born,

647
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,880
me and God were hanging out and
I was having a cigarette and a

648
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:06,200
cocktail and I was like, so God,
this time, let's, let's bring

649
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,160
this karma in.
And I want to know what this

650
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,400
loss is.
And I, I want to know all of

651
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:14,400
those things because I've been
through some crazy things and

652
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,880
they inform me, but I really do
my best to make them not define

653
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:25,320
me right 'cause it's easy to get
into that victimy woe is me.

654
00:38:25,720 --> 00:38:28,360
I'm angry.
It's easy to flip there as

655
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:34,560
opposed to it's so good to see
you and look at you and let me

656
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:39,920
see you and not all the noise.
So I hope we find a way and I

657
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:44,160
really hope you get gobs more
money so that can come out

658
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,840
sooner.
So what is the plan for that and

659
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,520
can people get the book now?
The book is available on Amazon.

660
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:57,280
It's available in six languages.
And if you just go on Amazon and

661
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,200
search Yogis of Ukraine, it's
there.

662
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,400
It looks like this.
I happen to have a copy right

663
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,240
here and there it is.
It's a really powerful book.

664
00:39:05,240 --> 00:39:08,720
There's a story in it that
speaks to your surrender concept

665
00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:11,920
you mentioned.
So fly to London, London to

666
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,080
Warsaw.
Then on the first trip there, we

667
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:19,720
drove from Warsaw to Kiev.
And for a whole bunch of

668
00:39:19,720 --> 00:39:24,920
reasons, the trip took 20 hours
instead of the 16 it should have

669
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:29,320
taken.
And we get into Kiev and we

670
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:33,280
check into a hotel at 6:00 AM.
So we've driven through the

671
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,080
night and at 6:00 AM and we
check into the hotel.

672
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:40,160
And it's very overwhelming
because in Ukraine, Ukraine is

673
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,720
probably like Korea, where you
can't read the language.

674
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:49,360
And so we're checking into the
hotel and signing the thing to

675
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,720
get the room.
And then they hand me an English

676
00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:55,520
language contract.
And the English language

677
00:39:55,520 --> 00:40:00,680
contract says if you are killed
or injured in this hotel, you

678
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,960
can't sue the hotel because it's
a result of the war.

679
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,040
And if you want your room, you
have to sign this document.

680
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,960
And so that was when the war
became really real for me.

681
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,560
Up till that point, it was just
like, and so I have to sign this

682
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,680
thing and I'm exhausted.
So I sign it.

683
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:23,400
I go up to my room and I hear my
first air raid siren.

684
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:25,600
There's incoming missiles to
keep.

685
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,480
And I thought, what am I doing
here?

686
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,120
I have to get out of here.
And I had this panic, but I

687
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:36,600
can't even go to the train
station to get out because I

688
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,840
can't read the signs.
And so I'm trapped.

689
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,040
And I went through this 15
minute thing that all of the

690
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:48,480
Ukrainians I think have gone
through where OK for me.

691
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,120
I took a four day trip to get
here.

692
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:56,480
I chose to come here.
I, I chose to be here.

693
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,960
So if it's my time to die, it's
my time to die.

694
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,680
And if it isn't, I'm going to do
what I came here to do, which is

695
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,640
to make this movie.
And that surrender to the

696
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:14,080
situation and that surrender to,
well, maybe today is my last day

697
00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:15,880
became actually really
empowering.

698
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,600
And that's what they've had.
That's what the Ukrainians live

699
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:23,880
with all the time, and there's
something really vivid about

700
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,480
living that way, where you're
just fully owning.

701
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:32,040
I chose to be here, I'm here.
There's incoming missiles.

702
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,200
The chances of them hitting me
are probably pretty small, but

703
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:39,240
they're still coming.
And that was the flip for me.

704
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,360
And then the rest of the trip I
just lived from that space and

705
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,120
took my pointers from them.
But that's that surrender piece.

706
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,000
So if people want to contribute,
they can.

707
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,520
There's ways to contribute on
the website.

708
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:54,480
You can read the book and leave
a review.

709
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,960
That would be very helpful.
And you know when the movie

710
00:41:57,960 --> 00:41:59,960
comes out, you can see the
movie.

711
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,240
Do you want to do theatrical or
do you like looking for the

712
00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:05,480
Netflix deal or it doesn't
matter?

713
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:10,720
We really want to do a
theatrical release because the

714
00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:16,240
movie plays extraordinarily well
when you give over to the 90

715
00:42:16,240 --> 00:42:20,040
minutes of it.
If you're on your phone, you

716
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,480
can't hear what they're saying
because it's unless you speak

717
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,360
Ukrainian, because it's in
Ukrainian.

718
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:27,920
So you have to give it your full
attention.

719
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,320
And when people give it their
full attention, they're

720
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,720
transformed and they have an
awakening and they have just

721
00:42:33,720 --> 00:42:36,120
like you kind of got from the
little bit of stuff that's on

722
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,640
the website.
It's powerful movie.

723
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:44,240
So our plan or our hope is to be
able to do what we're casually

724
00:42:44,240 --> 00:42:47,880
calling a World Peace tour,
where we take the movie around

725
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:53,000
to conflict zones around the
planet and we show the movie as

726
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,200
a way to help people who are
going through trauma.

727
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:01,360
Here's a way that if you use
meditation and yoga, you can

728
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:06,640
create a sanctuary for yourself
in the middle of all this chaos

729
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:10,000
and trauma.
So that's our hope is to take it

730
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:14,600
around to to that.
And then obviously ultimately it

731
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,000
will be on streaming and stuff.
But the initial thing is to

732
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,240
really lean into the theatrical
screenings.

733
00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:23,400
This was actually the hardest
day for we went to Kiev to

734
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,160
screen it for them.
We went to the theater and the

735
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:29,480
theater told me, you know, if
there's an air raid alert and we

736
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:33,160
have to stop the movie.
And so I just you should.

737
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,560
Need AT shirt that says that if
there's an air raid alert.

738
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:41,080
So I just, I wanted these women
to experience the whole movie

739
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,480
because the movie has some
chapters to it.

740
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,200
It sets up some things in the
first part and the second part

741
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:51,080
that land in the third part.
So I wanted them to just

742
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,200
experience the whole 90 minutes
of it.

743
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:57,320
And fortunately, we did get a
couple hours without an air

744
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:01,280
raid, so they did get to see it.
But that night, we were part of

745
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:05,640
the worst bombing on Kiev.
And the following morning, we're

746
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:10,400
leaving Ukraine and the
Ukrainians texted us and said,

747
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:12,480
congratulations, you're no
longer a virgin.

748
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,920
You've had a missile hit, you've
had a drone hit.

749
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,160
You've had.
So there's a lot of a lot of

750
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,280
humor.
But we went to the train station

751
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,680
and literally there's anti air
missiles blowing things down.

752
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:28,040
And we're rushing to get to the
train station so we can leave.

753
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:35,000
And I had this moment where I
thought, how selfish we're

754
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,560
running to leave and they can't
leave.

755
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,440
And it was this sort of
reflection of I don't even know

756
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,560
what, but but I think it was to
be able to bring their story out

757
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:48,080
to the world.
Yeah, I think you're all

758
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:51,720
definitely linked for that.
I love that I went on talked to

759
00:44:51,720 --> 00:44:56,960
you for four hours, but I'm
going to honor my commitment to

760
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:00,000
keeping it to an hour.
So I just want to tell people

761
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:05,040
like I did go to Yogis of
Ukraine online and bobdegas.com

762
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:09,520
and please, if you can
experience it for a few moments,

763
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:11,480
I think it is well worth your
time.

764
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:15,560
And as you can tell, Bob has
always been quite generous and

765
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:21,480
kind of strict and funny all at
the same time because like kind

766
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:23,560
of strict, but like you did, I
don't.

767
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:25,840
I had this memory last night,
popped out of bed.

768
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,760
But when we worked together, I
got into a bad car accident

769
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:34,600
doing a run and we were in
Pasadena and it was raining and

770
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:36,560
some guy.
Rains the A with this story.

771
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,840
Yeah, right now.
So, but the front end of my car

772
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,680
came off and I came back to set
and I think I was crying,

773
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:44,520
'cause, you know, it's what I
do.

774
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,320
And I got on the walkie cause
everyone was mad at me about

775
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:48,680
second meal.
I think I was supposed to pick

776
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:50,680
up second meal, but I don't
think I was successful.

777
00:45:50,720 --> 00:45:53,120
Hate second meal and never ask
APA to do that again.

778
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,480
So I was just like, hey, like
Channel 2.

779
00:45:57,240 --> 00:46:00,520
I was like, I was just in a big
car accident and you're like,

780
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:02,840
oh, in the front end of your
car.

781
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,720
So you were just so Bob about
that.

782
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:08,320
You're like, well, can you drive
home?

783
00:46:08,720 --> 00:46:11,480
I was like, yeah, probably
shouldn't have, by the way,

784
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:12,960
total state of shock, but that's
OK.

785
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,280
It was my normals.
And then you're like, I'll pick

786
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,440
you up tomorrow.
And like from that day on until

787
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:21,120
this show wrapped, you would
pick me up your assistant to go

788
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:22,480
to set.
And I just thought that was

789
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,440
like, I don't really know of
other people who would have done

790
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:27,680
that in.
It was never weird or creepy.

791
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:29,880
So people who are thinking
Hollywood, it wasn't like that.

792
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,080
You were just like, that sucks.
So then even production helped

793
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,000
me fix it, which was miraculous
for Chanticleer.

794
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,920
But I was just like, I was like,
wow, I totally forgot about that

795
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,880
story.
And I think somehow it connects

796
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:46,080
with the spirituality.
Maybe there was a spark that

797
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:49,600
neither of us knew then of a
higher calling that was there

798
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:54,000
looking out for us through that
whole Hollywood ordeal.

799
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:57,480
Although I don't regret it, it
was just not fun all the time.

800
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,880
That's a nice way to put it.
But it did lead us here.

801
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:03,840
And I'm glad you're still
telling stories.

802
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,000
I think you have quite a skill
for it.

803
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,680
So I just wanted to say all of
that because, like, how could I

804
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:14,600
not share those fun memories?
But I would love to know what is

805
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:19,120
your warning label?
Two of them, so there would have

806
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:23,520
been one when I was in my 20s
and 30s, which is I don't have

807
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:25,960
any clue who I am, so be
careful.

808
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:31,880
The one now would just be that I
don't smile.

809
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:38,240
And it's not that I don't smile,
it's see, it's not that I don't

810
00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:41,840
smile.
I had a bike accident in 7th

811
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:47,720
grade and I was paralyzed on the
left side of my body and I had

812
00:47:47,720 --> 00:47:52,480
traumatic brain injury,
undiagnosed and I learned to

813
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:57,400
walk again.
And the the final outcome is

814
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,560
that there's sort of a paralysis
about my face.

815
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:04,080
And so for me to smile, like
when I'm laughing, it's like

816
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:07,600
I've learned I have to like
laugh like hugely.

817
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:11,120
So when we're just having this
conversation, I have this very

818
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:16,240
flat thing that is a result of
that bike accident in for years,

819
00:48:16,240 --> 00:48:18,480
I didn't even realize it was
intimidating and people couldn't

820
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:20,640
read what I was thinking.
That actually turned out to be

821
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:23,040
an advantage as a line producer,
but for sure.

822
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,320
But it's not.
It's like I think I'm being

823
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:32,480
effervescent and, you know, and
I'm just just flat.

824
00:48:34,240 --> 00:48:37,240
I love that because it's true,
because you're really funny,

825
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,080
right?
Like that's also like, I'm like,

826
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:40,880
I think you're funny, my sense
of humor.

827
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:42,760
But I did not know that about
you.

828
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,520
And now I have more reasons to
invite you back next year.

829
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,040
After though, I talked to
another heavy metal drummer,

830
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:51,320
which is a joke between you and
I, but there will be more.

831
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,440
But thank you so much for
sharing your story on my

832
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,440
podcast.
Again, everyone go find Bob

833
00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:02,120
Degas and Yogi of Ukraine online
and if you have questions or

834
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:04,360
curious about it, like comment,
leave us feedback.

835
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:07,400
We want to hear about it.
So thank you again, Bob,

836
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:08,800
everyone.
Thank you, everybody.

837
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:09,880
OK, bye.