The Man Behind Mad Men Tells All: Emmys, Streaming, and How Hollywood Really Works | Dwayne Shattuck

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So welcome to the Holly Hughes
podcast today.

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I'm very excited.
I feel really honored to have

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Dwayne Shattuck here today
because he's a man who went from

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set medic to studio head.
He's won multiple Emmys, Golden

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Globes, DGA PGA Awards.
He's run 2 studios and he claims

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to be getting ready to retire,
which is why I think I have this

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golden opportunity to chat with
him.

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So welcome to my show, Dwayne.
I shouldn't say actually retire.

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It's like as they say, old
producers don't retire, they

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just fade away.
You know you can't fade out.

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Eventually you do less and less
projects until no one knows

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where the hell you are anymore.
That's kind of more the way it

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works.
It's not run away.

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Never.
Actually quit.

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Yeah.
We never give up and say OK,

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that's it, I'm done.
OK, I'll I'll make sure we know

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that so anyone who's wanting
Dwayne, he's just he's just

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saying that he might have more
opportunity for you now as he

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shifts gears.
He's shifting gears, though.

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I would like to say that I
reached out to you because we

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worked on like was AB movie.
Nowadays, what do we call those?

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But it was.
Yeah, back.

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In Brutal Dark Side of Jaden,
yes.

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OK, yes.
Back in the day, but Fade and

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Papa Michael, who also went on
to win like an Academy Award, he

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was like the DP and director on
that.

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You and I have also other
strange things in common that I

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bet you would have no idea
because again, it's at the

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beginning of your career.
Like I remember you had like

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long blonde hair.
Yeah, I used to have long hair

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and back back in the ponytail
back when we had a lot more

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here.
OK, so how did you go from set

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medic to DGA?
Let's look at.

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There's no Direct Line there,
Just say it.

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No, there never is.
You know, people in how I say

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like people end up in this
industry for various reasons.

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Some people fail upwards into it
and I think I had a director

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tell me one time I said there's
something about how he got in

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the industry and he goes, well,
I've been fired from every real

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job I've ever had.
So I end up in the it's kind of

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like the island of misfit toys.
You end up here, you can't get

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hired in the real world.
You end up in the film industry

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somehow.
My background was I'd started

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out, I was at a fire department
paramedic and it was during the

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let's see started about 7980812.
It just was a time when it just

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the crack and epidemic.
So I went rampant and we just

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got unbelievably busy all the
time.

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So I ended up hurting my back
just 20 or 4 hours a day of

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straight running calls.
I think I ended up lifting too

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many stretchers and, and pulling
people out of cars and whatever.

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And really I was in a lot of
pain.

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And so my partner had gone off
me said hey, do you want to work

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on a movie?
And I was like, yeah, well what

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do you have to do?
And he's like nothing.

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You just sit around and do
absolutely nothing for 12/14

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hours a day.
And I think he said paid 800 to

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1000 bucks a week.
And I was like, really sign me

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up.
So I started doing that.

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I started working on movies.
Manas a set medic, you really

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are just there for for security
and union reasons.

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And if anything really bad
happens, you're going to call

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911 anyways.
But you're the first one there

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and the last one to leave.
So it's long day.

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It's really, really boring.
And I said one day I was working

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for I was doing a, a Michael
Mann miniseries and I was

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working with an AD older guy.
His name was Bronco Lustig, and

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Bronco, he was probably in his
60s.

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Then he went on to Purdue
Schindler's List and won an

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Academy Award for it.
But he used to sit and come sit

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during lunch under a tree.
One day we were doing these big

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stunts and I came over and sat
next to him and he goes, you

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look bored.
What do you want to do?

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And I said, I want to do what
you do, Bronco.

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So he said, well, I'll tell you
what, I'll bring you on my shows

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as APA and get all your days to
get in the Directors Guild that

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way and get all your union debt
work as set medics slash PA.

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So I did that, which is really
lucky.

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So I got my 300 or 405.
I don't even know what it was

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days.
I went into the second AD, got

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my days and then went up to a
first AD and then as then UPM

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stayed UPM forever.
UPM slash producer usually do

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that.
I've done a couple shows where I

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was both want to keep the
benefits going on the DGA side

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of Directors Guild.
So you know, always kind of keep

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that one going too.
And it's become standard that if

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you're a line producer even, you
get Directors Guild benefits

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just so you stay current and get
your health insurance and all

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that fun stuff because it's much
better than, you know, going

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freelance outside world.
So, yeah, so that's pretty much

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it.
And then kind of clawed my way

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up the food chain.
I have to say, you make it sound

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so easy.
You're like, yeah.

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So like I met this guy and he
was like, yeah, I think, you

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know, personality wise, you are,
you are calm in a sea of.

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I honestly, my sister who's an
actress, was for years, was

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really a good working actress.
She was kind of every television

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series.
Yeah, I know she was.

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I was going to ask if you ever
hired her, if that helped at

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all.
She.

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Kind of said one day she had
told me she was like, well, I

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was a medic.
She says, you know, I was

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sitting on the set, I was
watching the first AD and I was

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like, you'd be great at this
because you know, you've got the

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background of just being calm
under fire and dealing with

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situations.
And as a first AD, you know,

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I'm, I still do that even when
I'm going to set I or anywhere

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I'm listening, I'm talking to
somebody, I'm listening and I'm

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hearing someone else and what's
going on.

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I'm paying attention to what's
going on over here at the same

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time.
And it's kind of like same thing

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you do as a medic.
You know, when you go, you're

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assessing the situation, the
surroundings, trying to think

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ahead of what might
possibilities that could happen,

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trying to think of everything so
you can brace yourself and

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prepare for these kind of
things.

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You get into producing a show or
approaching managing, you know,

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we always say we spend a lot of
time think, trying to think of

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like what scenarios, what could
happen, what could go wrong,

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what could happen.
You know, we'll come up with a

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bunch of different scenarios
and, and we'll run, you know

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what I call stress tests even on
fine 'cause it's all about money

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always and time is money.
So I'm always about running, you

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know, with my finance people.
And I do this still to this day

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with my shows and my finance
team is, you know, run tests on

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what, how much would it cost if
this happened?

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What happened if this happens?
And sure as hell, every time

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something comes out of the blue
that you think, you said, I've

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seen it all and you're like,
shit, I never would have thought

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of that.
But anyways, yeah, so it's

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always, you're still always
learning and never, you're

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never.
That's Murphy's Law filmmaking,

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you know?
Yeah, I like to tell people, one

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of my first producing jobs, I
was on the Sony lot.

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I had this big famous DP, right?
You know, DPS like to always

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test me.
Like I don't know if men get as

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tested as women.
Like do you know this equipment?

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Someone tried to order the wrong
equipment.

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I'm like that's lug to pin.
And I had to go through all the

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stuff.
Yes, I know what I'm doing.

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But that day my location manager
showed up late, an hour and a

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half late because he was drunk.
My grip truck was stuck in

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reverse.
And then my Technocrane went

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down and I was like.
OK.

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Are we going to sell salvage
this?

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Because like, you know, time is
money and everything costs and

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you know the meters running you.
Know I had kids on that day too.

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I had two kids.
I was like, Oh my.

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God, yes, you're figuring all
that kind of stuff.

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It's constantly, you know, it's
a lot of work when you're

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involved in it and you know, and
if you're doing a show as a

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producer or in a production
manager even, you know, I'd say

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it's like everyone else gets
off.

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What do you do this weekend?
We're going to go do.

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I'm like especially on location.
I'm like, it's seven days a week

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for me guys.
I'm, you know, on the weekends I

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have cast and crew and five,
getting people new hired and

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fired and cast flying in and out
and it's seven days a week.

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So what?
Would you stick through it?

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Well, the longer you're in this
business, there's nothing else

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you can do.
You know, I'm responsible for

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millions and millions of
dollars, but I can't go get a

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job at a bank.
So I tell people, it's like, you

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want to get in this industry,
that's fine.

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But you just realize that the
longer you're in it, you're

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unemployable in the real world.
You're going to be stuck here.

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So there's nothing else you can
really do.

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That is kind of true.
Like when you leave all those

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people who I thought were
friends, who I used to help get

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work all the time, they're like,
oh wait, you left.

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Peace out, girl.
Like I don't, I don't need you.

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I don't know.
You anymore people that managed

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to get out alive?
Yes, yes, get out of the

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trenches alive.
Did you ever want to direct?

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You know what, it's funny, I
never did.

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I've certainly directed enough
with the first time directors

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that needed their help, you
know?

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And then you, there's always
that situation, especially when

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you're on set.
It's the first AD where you work

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and experience director and
we've all had those direct DPS

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directions, photography, who or
armchair, you know, directors

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themselves and want to be and
they're going to sit there and

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undermine the drill.
He don't know what he's doing

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or, you know, it's like, oh God,
and you got to get in between

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that and then kind of help him
along.

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And then you realize it's like,
what do you you know, I've had

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people visit, I want to come
visit you on set, you know,

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especially when it was the first
day.

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I'm like, really, I like, no,
I'll come spend the day.

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I'm like, no, no, you won't want
to be there all day, you know,

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So they come out there.
And so I had a friend one time,

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went back and told my someone to
my family or friends.

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Like, how was it?
He lasted about two hours and

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he's like, I don't know
everyone.

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There's just a lot of people
sitting around doing nothing.

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And then all of a sudden
something will happen.

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People get moving around, then
they go back and sit down again.

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And then all what Dwayne does is
pretty much just yell at people

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and make them do things and keep
it moving.

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And I said, yeah, you just
understand that if I didn't have

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time frames and I said, look,
this is the way it works.

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I said, what is the first AD do?
It's like I wasn't there.

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The director would block, come
up with some ideas and DP would

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light all day, keep tweaking
things.

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So finally it was time to go
home and they were ready to go

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home.
We'd never actually roll camera.

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We'd never shoot if I don't
pray, if I wasn't there saying,

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how long do you need?
Mr. DP, you 15 minutes.

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OK, 15 minutes is up.
We're rolling.

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We're going to roll.
They would just keep tweaking

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with stuff all day and
eventually we'd just go home.

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No one would never actually roll
any shoot any film.

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I actually remember you saying
saying that I have I I have the

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image of your the wrist with
like back in that movie forever

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and I go, but you were still
kind of cool and my take of you,

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because I think I had been at
Chanticleer films for a while.

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So like I had gone through like
a Crucible of fire over there is

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very interesting dynamic and
they didn't like it when you

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left.
So they wouldn't help you get

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work and they kind of like
sabotage you.

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So I was like, OK, whatever, but
you seemed pretty loyal to like

221
00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:04,040
your second at the time.
My second a day who I've worked

222
00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,800
with or ever did every probably
every show I ever did as a first

223
00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:09,200
AD and then as a production
manager.

224
00:10:09,560 --> 00:10:11,680
He did a couple of first things
too.

225
00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:13,560
He actually died of cancer a few
years ago.

226
00:10:13,560 --> 00:10:15,360
But but anyways, yeah, he was
with me.

227
00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,680
Oh God, we traveled the world.
We were in the Philippines,

228
00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:20,840
Thailand and Mexico.
God, I mean Europe we've shot.

229
00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,040
I mean we were all over the
world filming stuff.

230
00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,840
So yeah, that movie Dark Side of
genius, Faden Pat Michael was

231
00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,320
the DP but he was actually
directing.

232
00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:31,840
But he was really you paying and
then he gave the credit to Chris

233
00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:36,160
Feluna, who was his gaffer for
years and Chris is one of those

234
00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:37,240
guys.
It's just hilarious.

235
00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,280
And I've worked with Chris
several times.

236
00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,240
I haven't talked to him in
years, but he had, you know,

237
00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:42,680
like 6 kids.
I don't know whatever.

238
00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,440
He's always got to work.
And so we actually went off the

239
00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:49,720
night beared a series in Hawaii,
North Shore, and he was the on

240
00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,200
that and he was the kind of guy
it's like trying to keep him

241
00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,840
quiet because he gets he gets
going and gets everybody

242
00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,680
laughing so much on set that you
got to like calm everybody down

243
00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:02,080
and somebody shut up.
So we can roll because everyone

244
00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,240
he's just constantly cracking
everyone up and saying these

245
00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,080
great, just great attitude.
But anyways, I actually I met

246
00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:12,960
Chris on that it's.
Amazing little spot.

247
00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,880
Like does that kind of thing
happen anymore?

248
00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,360
Because there is no such thing
as pilot season.

249
00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,000
There really isn't like the B
movie.

250
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:25,600
So how like I I met someone
recently who was graduating from

251
00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,040
film school and I have a whole
lot of opinions about that.

252
00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,840
Please don't go to film school.
Please just don't go to Business

253
00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:35,600
School and then learn.
But how do you break in?

254
00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:37,520
Like how like if you're
creating?

255
00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:41,760
I don't know now, I mean, I was
talking to my second command, my

256
00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:43,880
company the other day and we're
talking about this and he's

257
00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,760
like, you know, he's 40 and just
at the point he's got two small

258
00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,680
kids and the industry is a mess
right now.

259
00:11:50,680 --> 00:11:53,880
And he's like, I got 20, at
least 25 more years to go.

260
00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:55,520
I don't know what I'm going to
do.

261
00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:57,680
You know, it's just people are
calling me all the time and you

262
00:11:57,680 --> 00:11:59,240
know, and I get phone calls all
the time.

263
00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,200
People are not working anymore.
I've worked for years.

264
00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:02,680
Like I'm losing my house and
industry.

265
00:12:02,680 --> 00:12:05,080
It's like it's really, really
hard right now.

266
00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,280
And it's like I said, I think
my, I was lucky I got in the

267
00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,280
business the right time when
there was just so you could just

268
00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,040
you, you know, I mean, there
were times even when I was a

269
00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:18,600
medic where I would go show up
on a show and then realize after

270
00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:20,320
I've had breakfast and I'm on
the wrong show.

271
00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:22,680
So like, no, no, you're supposed
to be on Black Rain.

272
00:12:22,680 --> 00:12:24,160
They're then on the next hill
over.

273
00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:25,960
It's Karen.
Like you see about 15 people get

274
00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:28,840
up, take their place, go, you
know, we're on the wrong show.

275
00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,200
Never.
Heard that it was crazy, I mean.

276
00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,280
Downtown LA, people used to
fight over walking channels

277
00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:36,360
because you couldn't get up
frequency because there's so

278
00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:38,000
many Joe shooting at every
corner.

279
00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,840
And that was the days when you
couldn't afford to leave LA,

280
00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:42,440
right?
So you made everything.

281
00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,000
You made New York in LA, you
made Europe.

282
00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,040
You put sand down you whatever
you had to do because you

283
00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:49,280
couldn't afford to leave the
town.

284
00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:51,200
Leave town.
That was for tax incentives.

285
00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,920
So you had to make California
and that's why they built back

286
00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,080
lots of New York and all this
stuff because you couldn't

287
00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,560
afford to live here, leave here,
shooting anywhere else.

288
00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,720
So it worked out really well.
And then as the movie industry

289
00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,520
started going around and I had
gotten married and had kids and

290
00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:07,840
I'm like, I don't want to travel
that much anymore, so I'll, I'll

291
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,560
do more television.
And then television ended up

292
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:12,800
leaving.
So I had to leave, move around.

293
00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:16,160
The last show that I produced
production, it was Magic City in

294
00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,840
Miami.
And that was, you know, a year

295
00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:22,160
time of my life full time in
Miami.

296
00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:24,920
And, you know, I had kids back
home and my wife's trying to

297
00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,040
work as well.
And it was just really brutal.

298
00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,120
So after that, I was like, I, I
can't do this anymore.

299
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,400
And so someone offered my
actually, my agent said there's

300
00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,960
a company looking for someone in
house to run production for

301
00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:37,040
them.
Would you be interested in

302
00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,160
talking to them?
And I said, yeah, someone talked

303
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:40,480
to him.
I said I'll give it six months.

304
00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,920
Well, then, you know, and 12
years later, here I am, you

305
00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:48,280
know, but it's been good, which
is great because as having come

306
00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,680
from having worked for so many
different studios and having

307
00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:54,960
people in my position, what I do
now and calling them with a

308
00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,440
problem and they go, well, you
know what your budget is, figure

309
00:13:58,440 --> 00:13:59,600
it out.
I'm like, yeah, you're a big

310
00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,000
help.
I'm best friends with the

311
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:02,360
producers.
I'm like, look, you need

312
00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,400
somebody to call at 2:00 on
Friday, Saturday morning and

313
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:06,760
you're too numb to think
straight.

314
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,080
And I don't care how dumb you
think the idea is, you need

315
00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:10,480
somebody to bounce it off and
call me.

316
00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:12,920
I'm always answering my phone.
I'll talk to you.

317
00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:14,360
I've been there.
I understand it.

318
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,440
So I'm always best friends with
the crew, with the people crew

319
00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,480
wise that I hire on shows and
I'm and I am the person who does

320
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,920
make those decisions to go.
I'm producer particularly is and

321
00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,720
also over, you know, I got veto
rights over the directors.

322
00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,080
They want to pick to a point.
I'm like, if I'm going to be

323
00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,600
responsible for the budget and
for the series and I'm now done.

324
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,520
I don't know, 20 series and
knock on wood, I've never, I

325
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,280
mean I've never had a single one
go over.

326
00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:41,480
But so that's a good
accomplishment because most of

327
00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,600
the big, big ones, like if
you're in Amazon and Netflix and

328
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,720
stuff, they all go over budget.
They just spend spending.

329
00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:49,800
Do they care?
I don't run, I run it.

330
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,280
They do to a point.
I mean, they can't help it

331
00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:53,920
because they don't know how to
stop it.

332
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,760
Where I'll like, I'll get
together and brainstorm with the

333
00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,520
producers and say, look, you
know, it's always, obviously it

334
00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,200
all comes from the writing and
cast and whatever.

335
00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,560
And there's always ways to
figure it out and run different

336
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:08,720
scenarios.
And so we kind of work it

337
00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,400
through the problems and try to
figure it out.

338
00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:13,920
Same thing when I was doing Mad
Men for years.

339
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,560
You know, we went, we had a kind
of a different philosophy there.

340
00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:18,280
We didn't have any money on that
show.

341
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,480
Was because there's AMC like
where did it start?

342
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,400
AM C.
AM C Yeah, It was an AMC show.

343
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,600
They shot the pilot originally
in New York and couldn't get

344
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:27,960
anybody to pay for it
financially.

345
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,120
Used a little commercial company
to hire, and they basically, you

346
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,160
know, overcharged them.
So part of the deal was I was

347
00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,880
doing another series in Arizona
for Lionsgate at the time, and I

348
00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:39,960
got a call from the head of
production of Lionsgate and

349
00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,920
said, hey, we got this pilot.
I don't know if it's any good or

350
00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:43,560
not.
We've seen it.

351
00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:45,000
It's kind of, you know,
whatever.

352
00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,560
And but it's, it's going to get
picked up.

353
00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,760
And they couldn't get anybody to
produce it or pay.

354
00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:52,320
So we're getting everything on
this series.

355
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,480
Only thing AMC is getting is the
rights to air it live.

356
00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,280
We're getting everything else.
It's Lionsgate.

357
00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,680
And they're the producer and
writer who is Matt Weiner has

358
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,320
been living in New York writing
for The Sopranos for the last

359
00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,160
four or five years.
And part of the deal was if he

360
00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,640
comes here, wants to pick up the
show and he's it's got to shoot

361
00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:10,400
in Los Angeles, would you be 1
to talk to him?

362
00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:12,960
So they flew out here.
I met with them.

363
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:14,200
They said, look, we don't know
anybody here.

364
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,480
You have to put together a whole
crew, everything, hire

365
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:17,840
everything.
We don't know you know anybody

366
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:19,480
here.
So I was like, great, I can do

367
00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:20,720
that.
So I literally just cherry

368
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,160
picked all my favorite, best
people that I've worked with for

369
00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,240
years who all pretty much stayed
on the whole time.

370
00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,240
And yeah, we, yeah, we did the
show 7 day episodes the first

371
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,160
season with very, very little
money.

372
00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:33,840
No one was making any money on
the series.

373
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,000
Was it like a 3,000,000 an
episode kind of thing or less?

374
00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,080
2.
Shut up.

375
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:45,520
Yeah.
Yeah, 2.2 Yeah, no money, seven

376
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:47,520
day episodes.
And and they oh, and they were

377
00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,000
gonna bring a lot of the crew
from Sopranos who had unlimited

378
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:51,600
money and spending.
And it's like, but it really

379
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,360
worked out well because
everyone's best friends.

380
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,280
So they just would like it's
almost like family.

381
00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:56,760
They would just go, no, you
know, it's good.

382
00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,640
That just had to be below the
line that was not above the.

383
00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,720
Line that's an entire budget and
so yeah we're in LA center

384
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:04,960
studios so that's why I mean the
show I.

385
00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,359
Can't even do that.
Leave the stage.

386
00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:10,319
I mean, we couldn't couldn't
afford to go out anywhere much

387
00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:13,839
unless we saw so we really
produced it where you know, they

388
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,000
we had directors who were on
same people.

389
00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:21,800
Some people came up from within
directed and you know, we want

390
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,520
if we had to leave the stage,
most of the time we would shoot,

391
00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:28,000
we would shoot around that, we
would shoot downtown LA, but we

392
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,040
wouldn't even move trucks.
We just put everybody in crew

393
00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:31,760
vans and drive down there in a.
State pair.

394
00:17:32,360 --> 00:17:34,040
Oh my God, I love that.
Money.

395
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:35,640
Yeah.
That's why we were all on the

396
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:37,880
stage all the time.
So we did seven day episodes,

397
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:39,840
but it was the way we shot that
show.

398
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,880
It was very old fashioned.
It's always on a Dolly, always

399
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,120
on 2 cameras with gear heads,
never.

400
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:50,920
No steady Cam, no funky stuff.
Everything was a Dolly move and

401
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,800
then I'd push in or I shot man
with it on to the next scene.

402
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,680
So we were literally doing 11
hour days the first season,

403
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,160
seven day episodes.
But the actors also were great.

404
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:03,840
I am trying to wrap my like,
first of all, as I worked at

405
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,360
spelling for years, I think we
typically had three million

406
00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:10,160
about a week.
We did seven day episodes as

407
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,600
well, but that was mostly below
the line that wasn't always

408
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:15,360
above.
So for people who aren't in film

409
00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:18,280
and TV, above the line is cast.
It's like all the very famous,

410
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,440
it's all the people you're
watching, the writers, the

411
00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,520
executive producers, it's them.
And below the line is the crew,

412
00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,440
the people that you never know
and those names that go really

413
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,800
fast on credits that we work
really hard to get up there.

414
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,000
But I mean, it makes me like
this show more.

415
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,640
So I also scoured the Internet
and I saw not one direct quote

416
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:39,120
from you.
By the way, you are quiet.

417
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,200
I don't know if you if you scrub
the Internet, but I want to, I

418
00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:43,800
want to give you your credit
right here.

419
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,000
The funny thing was a weird
thing about it all.

420
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,720
It's like no one was prepared to
what happened the first season

421
00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,600
when there was a lot of fighting
and with AMC and between Lions

422
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,920
Gate and stuff and you know,
budgets and what we're going to

423
00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:59,640
spend and just, you know, a
second season, whether it's

424
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:01,880
going to get picked up or not.
And we were going to hold the

425
00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,320
stages.
That kind of stuff was not free.

426
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,640
Of course, with the set, with
this main set on, we kept one

427
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,480
stage and all that stuff.
But there was after the first

428
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:12,800
year that was in the writers
strike happened.

429
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,240
So the Emmys, there was no
Emmys.

430
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,840
We literally went to the Chateau
Marmont and and rented the suite

431
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,080
on the top floor that has the
balcony.

432
00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:24,760
And it was just us, our people
to cast some Lionsgate people

433
00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:28,520
and we sat and watched it being
announced on TV and they read

434
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,360
off the awards and they were
like 1 madman.

435
00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,280
We got to I think we got 22
Emmys and we were like, just

436
00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,640
kind of like what it was like,
you know, but we're all alone.

437
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,240
So we were up there, you know,
we wasn't any Emmy Awards,

438
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,120
anything like that.
So after that, it just became

439
00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:47,600
kind of the surreal thing that,
you know, the yeah, that it just

440
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,880
all of a sudden it came, you
know, I had, well, you know, all

441
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,680
of a sudden fame, I guess came
strange knocking.

442
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,280
Like I had a couple of people
show up in my door in the middle

443
00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,520
of the night and things like
that.

444
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,080
You know, I end up putting in
security cameras and the gates

445
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,960
and there were some bunch of
conspiracy theorists stuff on

446
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,120
the Internet about my family and
me and all this stuff because

447
00:20:08,120 --> 00:20:10,960
some of the relatives in my
family are in public service.

448
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,160
So it was just kind of this
craziness.

449
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,160
I don't know.
Yes, they did.

450
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,760
Oblisi did a good job about
going on there and removing

451
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,720
things that were true, sort of,
and keeping it down.

452
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,360
And I was like, look, I don't
need to be out there doing

453
00:20:24,360 --> 00:20:26,560
interviews and stuff.
I don't.

454
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,800
I never did.
I know, but that's that's

455
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:30,800
unique.
Let's let's talk about the LA

456
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:32,960
Eagle, right.
You know, like it's not like

457
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,520
you're, you can't be in your job
and not be a leader.

458
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,400
And I can even see looking at
you now, I could like feel the

459
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,200
15 thoughts that you're going
through your head.

460
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:42,880
And what do I do this with what
I do that?

461
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,160
I mean, I had that weird thing
happen to me when I wrote that

462
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,240
essay about what happened to me
on the set of Election when I

463
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:52,080
got thrown on the table and dry
humped in front of the crew and

464
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,920
it got published before I edit
it like, so I had just pitched

465
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,160
and they're like, yes.
And then usually you go back and

466
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:02,480
forth and.
Funny thing on on, for instance,

467
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,040
use mad Matt wants to talk about
that way.

468
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:09,520
So Matt Weiner is was very loyal
to his people on the show and

469
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:14,120
very secretive about stuff.
We had to sign non disclosure

470
00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:17,160
forms about things.
So I never look, I've had people

471
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:18,800
call me about when to interview
me.

472
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:20,400
They're writing books about the
show.

473
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,760
Want to know some juicy behind
the scenes gossip things.

474
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,480
I'm like, no, you know, I got I
got tons of stuff, but you're

475
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,520
never going to hear it.
So not for me, you know, he was

476
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:31,360
big about that.
So the crew and all the people

477
00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:33,480
that I and I were real
protective of the show.

478
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,400
I mean, script wise, you know,
nothing got out.

479
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,680
But every person, even down to a
grip, read the scripts.

480
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,400
And if Scooter the grip, which
happened one time, Matt Weiner

481
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,880
asked him what he thought of
something in the script they

482
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:47,360
just written.
And he said, well, I didn't

483
00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:50,320
understand that.
And then Matt flipped, runs back

484
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,560
to his office and has to like
work all weekend because he's

485
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,880
like, like, please just tell him
you liked it.

486
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,040
You know, let him because it's
like the guy worked 24 hours,

487
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,080
seven days a week.
So we we had to put a special

488
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:01,680
air conditioner because they
shut the power off on the

489
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,680
weekends at La Center Studios so
he could stay there and work

490
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,240
around the clock and sleep on
his couch because that's the way

491
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:08,480
he worked, you know?
Yeah.

492
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,120
You know, it was a very
protective group and so, and

493
00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:13,400
very secretive about things,
including all the way to the

494
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,040
ending of the show, what's going
to happen.

495
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:16,720
But everybody was very
protective of it.

496
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:20,640
I like that it's rare.
Yeah, and the no cameras, yeah,

497
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:22,160
like nobody took.
There was never any taking

498
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,360
pictures on the set.
I mean, I have a few, but

499
00:22:24,360 --> 00:22:25,720
they're just, you know, things
that.

500
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,480
But I remember seeing you up
getting when you did get to go

501
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,400
on stage to get your Emmy, you
were like in the back, like

502
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,720
you're you're.
You're strong stood behind, you

503
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,040
know.
Yeah, I wouldn't mad to be in

504
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,200
the obviously in the front and
then the cast and then, you

505
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,320
know, I kind of like kind of a
stand back where, you know, I'm

506
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,240
not like in the very front.
Some of it, you know, I mean,

507
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,120
there are there were other award
shows and things that we came up

508
00:22:48,120 --> 00:22:51,160
and awards that, you know, were
more personal that I was there

509
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,920
for and you know that.
And and then I did do several

510
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,200
things like when the Directors
Guild awards came out and we

511
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:02,080
won, I don't know, a couple
years that I don't even remember

512
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,160
how many, you know, that I would
speak in the Directors Guild.

513
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,680
They asked me to do things.
So I did things like that.

514
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,800
And publicly through the my own
union and, you know, the

515
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,280
Directors Guild, I went go and
the things and speak about the

516
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,400
show and things then.
But other than that, yeah, I

517
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,840
just kind of like, I'm not like
the guy that's going to be out

518
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,880
there, you know, in the front.
Makes you you I I like that.

519
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:23,200
Actually respect that.
I have.

520
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,320
As a former coordinator, I have
one burning question ready.

521
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,440
Why aren't coordinators put into
the DGA?

522
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:30,720
You mean production
coordinators?

523
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,320
Because they're in the IA.
But they're not, you know,

524
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:35,680
They're the redheaded
stepchildren.

525
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,080
I know it's a shitty position to
be in.

526
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:39,720
I mean, they've never had a
rate.

527
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,400
They were always IA, but it was
negotiable unless it's a

528
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,000
commercial.
I think they finally made.

529
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,800
The problem with that is they're
lumped in with script

530
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,800
supervisors and who's the other
one in the So the script

531
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,520
supervisors get all the love and
they're, you know, and they get

532
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,720
the sloppy seconds or whatever.
It's just like it's always been

533
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,960
a shitty place to be and you can
move out of it and just script

534
00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:03,400
into production supervisor.
And then maybe some of them

535
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,080
people have gone in and I have a
couple of people I have worked

536
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:11,040
with who were coordinators with
me who are now producing shows,

537
00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:14,880
production managing shows, one
being the Jason Momoa show in

538
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,120
Hawaii.
Sarah Donahue, she's a

539
00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:20,440
production manager on that.
She was a coordinator for me and

540
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,240
she clutter way out of that mess
and got into see it's.

541
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,520
So hard, it's so hard.
I, I always thought as a

542
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,000
coordinator I was like, let me
see, I'm work.

543
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,160
I'm doing all the negotiating
for my production manager who

544
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:30,560
doesn't really want to do it
right.

545
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,680
And then I'm training the DGA
trainee and I'm checking all his

546
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:35,280
paperwork.
Can I just like somehow?

547
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:36,160
Slip.
Yeah.

548
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:37,400
All little details.
Yeah.

549
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,560
And you catch all the crap
everyone comes in your office

550
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,520
and bitches about.
You know, the grips like I'm.

551
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,800
And then.
No, I'm sorry you got denied.

552
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:45,800
Sorry.
Dwayne was cheap.

553
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:47,520
He only give you half of what
you wanted.

554
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,040
Totally like go talk to the
accountant, go talk to the

555
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:51,560
accountant.
I don't know, I think you also

556
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,920
have the ability like when I did
do my own small independent

557
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,280
things, I always had a thing
about I always wanted to learn

558
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,720
about a specific part of the
crew.

559
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,600
Like I want to make sure I knew
what they were doing and I

560
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,080
understood it.
But there's, there are two

561
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,720
schools and I don't know if
they, if this is still the way

562
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:09,880
it was.
The people like probably like

563
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,680
you and a few other people that
I work for who taught me how to

564
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,000
make people want to work for
you, right?

565
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:16,640
Because I respected them, I
understood them.

566
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,720
And you give a little, you get a
lot more instead of being

567
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:21,160
stingy.
And then there's the people who

568
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,320
just think a horrible atmosphere
makes a good product.

569
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,080
No, it doesn't work that way for
me.

570
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:27,560
I always tell people and I hire
them.

571
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,320
It's like, I'm going to, you
know, first thing I do in my

572
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,440
Purdue line, producers or
whatever, I let them know what

573
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,680
the studio deal is, something
that I was never Privy to

574
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,440
because you always think, oh,
they're just, they got more

575
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,520
money in that, but they're just
trying to be cheap and save

576
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,080
money so they can get a bonus or
whatever the hell it is.

577
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,600
And I was like, no, I tell them
they're like, wow, no one's ever

578
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,360
actually told me that.
I'm like, yeah, here's the

579
00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:48,480
thing.
On this show, we're making

580
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,880
$5,000,000 an episode, say
after.

581
00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:53,800
But if we go over budget, it
comes out of that money.

582
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,680
So anything we spend, you know,
which is a very common thing

583
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,440
when you're kind of middleman
producing for say, Netflix,

584
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,120
Amazon, all these other
companies, right?

585
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,320
So that helps.
They go, oh, we get it, we're

586
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,440
better at it.
And then also, I was always

587
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,600
like, look, I can't pay you this
much.

588
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,360
I didn't pay you this much or
here's why, you know, And

589
00:26:12,360 --> 00:26:14,760
they're like, oh, because
normally everybody just goes,

590
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:16,640
now here's a, you know, rate or
here it is.

591
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,920
That's all there is.
But I never tell you why, you

592
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,000
know, and I'll say, look, I got
to spend money over here on this

593
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:23,840
or this is costing me more,
whatever.

594
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,200
And you know, it's kind of it
helps.

595
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,440
I mean, he doesn't always make
ease of paying completely.

596
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,280
But you know, depending on the
budget you're in, the last few

597
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,800
years has been so busy that it
was hard to find crew for

598
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,160
anything.
And you would call people up and

599
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:37,680
they're like, well, I got five
other offers.

600
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,240
How much over scale you willing
to pay me?

601
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:40,840
Well, boy, those times have
changed.

602
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,680
All those people that got in the
industry thinking this was going

603
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,160
to do, this is the way it's
going to work.

604
00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:48,160
It's going South.
You have you have your hand in

605
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:53,120
reality TV too at ITV, no?
ITV reality in a business,

606
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:54,640
biggest reality producer in the
world.

607
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,120
I think overall, but I don't
have any do a reality.

608
00:26:57,120 --> 00:26:59,640
No, I'm just I believe talkies
scripted.

609
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,400
That's fun because I'm like, my
thing is like I stepped away

610
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,320
more during when reality
started.

611
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:07,880
I was like, because you're not
paying us.

612
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:09,560
I have like 15 years of
experience.

613
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,080
You want me to work?
For work and they still don't

614
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:12,960
make any money.
I got to do, you know, The thing

615
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,320
is I got to do 1520 shows to
have the same profit that we can

616
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,240
make on one series, you know, so
they, they don't make money on

617
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,200
these things much and it's
gotten less like everything

618
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,400
else, you know.
All right, so is LA dead, do you

619
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,360
think?
Like are you are, is your stuff

620
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:29,680
all over?
It's pretty bad.

621
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,520
I mean, look, things can always
turn around.

622
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,840
What's happened is it was really
good for a while.

623
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,960
Obviously the streaming wars
were going on Amazon and Apple

624
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,480
and Netflix is like who could
outspend each other?

625
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,400
Everybody was spending like
drunken sailors and suddenly all

626
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,120
of a sudden Netflix, you know,
they were make, they were using

627
00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:47,960
their stock just kept going up
with no way to ever show a

628
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,360
profit.
They said finally, uh oh, we got

629
00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:51,840
to start showing a profit
somehow.

630
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,200
So they started an ad tier.
Now they're kind of picking it

631
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,000
up, but everyone has cut way
back on their spending.

632
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,920
You know, Apple and Amazon
really got into the industry.

633
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:02,760
I started making TV shows and
movies.

634
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:07,160
I mean, look, if Apple's net
profit last year was 450 million

635
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,560
billion dollars, whatever the
hell it was, you know, and they

636
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,480
go out and spend, you know, half
a billion dollars on making some

637
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,160
TV shows, big deal.
What is it about?

638
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,920
It's about, OK, if you get
Amazon, you get this for free.

639
00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:22,360
Apple is about driving.
People don't buy Apple just to

640
00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:24,960
watch the shows.
I mean, it's part of the package

641
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,640
you get.
It's about driving the people to

642
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,600
buy more Apple products, buy
other things.

643
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,040
Right now, they're like I said,
the streaming wars have kind of

644
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,080
come to an end and I don't know
what their plan is.

645
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,080
A lot of the folks have left.
They've downsized these

646
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,320
companies hugely production wise
and people that are there are

647
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,680
scared to make real commitments.
Everyone's kind of like looking

648
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,080
over the shoulder, like, what's
next?

649
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,440
And this is now been going on
for a couple years.

650
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,080
Obviously the cost of making
shows is gone, extremely gone up

651
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,040
high.
You know, Netflix, you know,

652
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,320
started paying ridiculous
amounts of money to actors and

653
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,160
writers and stuff.
And everybody would go, oh, and

654
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:02,960
Netflix, I'm like, I don't care
what Netflix is doing.

655
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:04,280
That's great.
That's only Netflix.

656
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,320
And then Apple started doing.
Then Amazon had to do it.

657
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,520
Now they're kind of in this pull
back and let's see what happens

658
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,000
and wait it out.
And obviously money costs more

659
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,160
to borrow too.
We have to run scenarios like

660
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,520
where is the cheapest place we
can shoot this show?

661
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,520
Is it Bangladesh?
Is it, you know, Canada?

662
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,440
I mean, Canada ends up being a
for the most part a pretty good

663
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,560
deal.
And so it's not usually always

664
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:26,680
up to us.
It's about a bottom line of what

665
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,600
we're going to green light for
us to pay.

666
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,320
And obviously the networks want
to pay as little as possible.

667
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,680
So where are we going to make
the most amount of money?

668
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:35,360
How are we going to make to stay
in business?

669
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,760
I think probably overall, I
think last time we looked, I

670
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,880
think compared to the height,
they're making somewhere 25 to

671
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:47,160
3030% of what they were making
them show television movies

672
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:48,520
then.
So there's a lot of people

673
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,120
unemployed.
That's crazy.

674
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,360
So was there ever a show that
you developed?

675
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,320
Like was there an idea or like a
writer that you liked or

676
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,440
anything like that?
Did that ever like come across

677
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,720
your world or you were just
trust the process?

678
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,840
No, I kind of always was a gun
for hire.

679
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,040
I mean, look, we all have
creative ideas and stuff.

680
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,320
And the weird thing is, and back
in the pilot days, even when the

681
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,200
network pilots and I would do a
network pilot and I'd read a

682
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,520
script and I'd be like, wow,
this is a really good script.

683
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,600
And then you go and do it and it
just doesn't work out as well or

684
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,480
you do it.
The ones we always funny thing

685
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,880
was the ones that were always
the most biggest disaster were

686
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,320
the ones that seemed to always
pick that got picked up and even

687
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,680
I'm like, Oh, you know, I'll do
this, but the righties not that

688
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,400
good, and those are the ones
that get end up getting picked

689
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,760
up.
You know what Spelling used to

690
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,840
have us do?
They would have us running a

691
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:36,640
show, right?
Like let's say, what was it like

692
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:38,160
Malibu Shores?
Like something that did get

693
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:39,840
picked up?
I'll use that as a we were doing

694
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,640
that, but I also had to work on
the pilots so they didn't have

695
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,680
to double pay me.
He's like, they're like, well,

696
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,320
you have the time, you're in the
office, you're here.

697
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,240
I was like, OK, thanks.
Yeah, I mean, we would always,

698
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,160
and I do this always too.
It's pretty standard before, you

699
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,680
know, K say you shoot a oil
pilot, then you want to have an

700
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,680
episodic budget because they're
going to want to know what this

701
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,080
going to cost, right?
So you're kind of guessing

702
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:02,400
because you don't have scripts
written yet.

703
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,960
So you're kind of like, let's
see $6 million, you know, a kind

704
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,680
of guess somewhat, but it's
easier in the last during rap in

705
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,960
the first season, even if you
don't have a second season

706
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,440
picked up, you always have them
do run it, you know, figure out

707
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,400
and come up with a budget for a
season 2 with all the increases

708
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:19,160
and everything in.
There.

709
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,400
What is this season now?
Is it 22 episodes?

710
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:22,840
Is it 9?
Like how does it work now?

711
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,520
There's not a pilot well.
When it used to be 22, it was

712
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,840
you know, you did the 1st 12:00
and then you got it back 9,

713
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,080
which is in the street because
then you got to amortize over

714
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:31,600
you said.
So it's like woo, lots of money

715
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,560
on the back nine.
Well, that's that went down to

716
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:38,240
twelves that went down to 10 to
12 episodes soon to be standard.

717
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,680
Then it's 10, now it's 8.
I mean, and yeah, I mean, I'm

718
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:44,040
not network.
I don't know what the hell

719
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:45,520
network's doing.
I mean, networks are hardly

720
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:46,080
doing anything.
I'm.

721
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:47,280
Talking.
I don't watch that anyway, it's

722
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,080
fine.
Any series on Netflix or

723
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:51,640
anything it's they're 8
episodes.

724
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,080
The cost of doing 8 episodes is
as much as it used to cost to do

725
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,880
22.
Honestly, you know the cast

726
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,120
costs above the line that just
everything's more expensive,

727
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:02,120
right?
It's inflation.

728
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,440
So what it costs us, you do 12.
Now we can only afford to do 8.

729
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,880
Do they make more money when
they release them in like the

730
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,880
three episodes that they do?
Is that like a you know what,

731
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,760
what, what is that strategy?
Why is this, you know, why does

732
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:15,600
sometimes they release 1 episode
a time?

733
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,800
1 is the geniuses with the giant
brains at these networks who

734
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,640
think of this stuff, have these
plans, and whether they really

735
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:24,880
know what the hell they're doing
or not.

736
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:26,080
I don't know.
Sometimes.

737
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,840
Most of the shows that we're
seeing now, it's like all the

738
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,080
shows are in the can.
By the time we air the first

739
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:35,000
episode, you know that we'll
write all the scripts and then

740
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,480
write and then shoot all the
episodes before they even air.

741
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,960
Where we used to shoot an
episode and be writing the next

742
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,840
one while it's airing, It was
like that.

743
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:45,960
Just churn over like that.
It would just churn and burn.

744
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,600
Now it's no, we want to see all
the scripts written.

745
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,320
Do we know where we're going?
Before we even decide we're

746
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,480
going to green light the series,
we'll pay and write all the

747
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,600
scripts.
So it's very weird.

748
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,360
I mean, sometimes they'll say
we're going to dump all episodes

749
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,000
at once.
Sometimes I'll say one a week.

750
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,000
Lately the thing you'll seeing
is the first 3 or 4 episodes and

751
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,880
then one a week after that.
I think it all has to do with

752
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,600
what else they have and what
their numbers are looking like.

753
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,520
They're very guarded about the
viewership numbers.

754
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,600
Like networks.
You know, the old days, they

755
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:16,280
would release everything at
once, right?

756
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,720
And people could be like, oh,
this show set up for four days

757
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,680
straight, watching all 10
episodes.

758
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:21,880
Jay COVID.
Jay COVID.

759
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,640
Exactly.
I wish I could tell you more

760
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,320
about the reasoning for this,
the way they're working these

761
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,520
days, but I'm sure they have
some inkling of why.

762
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,440
But I think it really has to do
with, you know, competition or

763
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,880
what else isn't they have or who
else is releasing what at the

764
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:38,760
same time.
Well, what I find like

765
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:43,240
fascinating listening to you is
that like you seem to have found

766
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,320
the way to straddle being a
creative producer while being a

767
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,600
numbers guy, right?
And maintaining will air quote

768
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,720
sanity on a set because that's
really rare.

769
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:59,440
Usually you get stuck as one or
the other or negated because

770
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,520
they think if you know how to
run numbers you don't know how

771
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:05,000
to be creative and problem
solving to get that on in the

772
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,800
can or whatever they do get.
Back to me at 2:00 AM on a

773
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,840
Saturday morning at ripping up
for five days.

774
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:11,520
You'll see different me a little
more.

775
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,480
I prefer this one thing.
I'll take the one who's smile

776
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,440
who's.
Been here out, you know, popping

777
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,800
amphetamines, chain smoking,
whatever the hell it takes to

778
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,280
stay away.
My problem on sets was, you

779
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,120
know, people want to talk to you
and of course there was food

780
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,040
there.
So I'm like, OK, let's go stand

781
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,440
around craft service table and
I'll graze while talking to

782
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,159
somebody and stressing out while
I'm trying to, you know, listen

783
00:34:32,159 --> 00:34:33,760
to their problems, things like
that.

784
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,040
So I always you just have to
keep as a production manager,

785
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,320
I'm not so much as a producer,
but as a production manager of

786
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:40,960
someone else.
Another production manager told

787
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,440
me when I first moved up to
production managing was never

788
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,320
stand in one place too long.
They would come up and think of

789
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:47,600
things.
They'll stand there and start

790
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,960
shuffling their feet and they'll
think of something to ask you

791
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:51,760
for.
So he goes, as long as you just

792
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,199
keep moving and you're like a
shark, then they'll, they'll

793
00:34:54,199 --> 00:34:56,960
won't feed on you if you, he
said, if you stay along one

794
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,400
place or like seagulls picking
the seaweed on a beach, she'll

795
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,720
just, they'll start coming
around just pecking at ya.

796
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:03,640
So you're like, OK, I'll be,
I'll be with you in a minute.

797
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,280
I'll be right back, you know.
But on the other.

798
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:06,920
Hand That's Milwaukee.
It's Milwaukee.

799
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:08,480
I gotta go.
On the other hand, I said, you

800
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,240
know, when I went from first day
being to production manager, I

801
00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:13,800
was like, holy shit, these days
are long because the first day

802
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,320
of day you're always like, Oh my
God, it's already new.

803
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,840
Oh my God, it's already 3.
The production manager.

804
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,080
I'm like, Oh my God, it's only
10 AM and I've already dealt

805
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,120
with, you know, I'm already
daunted and all this shit I've

806
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,560
already been hit with.
And then we used to say also in

807
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,680
shows, it's like any day, any
moment or on a set hour when I'm

808
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,600
bored, I go, God, I'm kind of
bored.

809
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,680
And you're like, Oh, no, don't.
Say that, don't say that.

810
00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:36,200
If you're bored, that means
you're not around putting out

811
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:37,280
fires.
That means everyone's doing

812
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:38,880
their job.
Everything's going well.

813
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,360
You know, the studio's not
calling, asking what the Hell's

814
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,560
going on, why you're so behind
anything like that.

815
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,040
Yeah.
And so it's an interesting

816
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:46,480
thing.
Yeah.

817
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,200
Once you're bored, you realize
that.

818
00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:50,600
Yeah, that everything's good.
Everyone's, every.

819
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,760
All the children are tucked in
neatly and doing their jobs and.

820
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,920
It scares you.
I when I had my daughter, I was

821
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,480
older, shockingly because I was
in entertainment rights and I

822
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,120
was like, I went from being on
set 250 people asking for things

823
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,480
and eating things to me not
being able to manage a single

824
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:09,720
crying infant.
It was such a reality change and

825
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:11,880
I was like, what?
What happened?

826
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:13,880
There's a famous in my family
picture of me.

827
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:15,720
I'm coming home on a Saturday
morning.

828
00:36:15,720 --> 00:36:17,960
I think it was on Mad Men or I
said all night, shoot on Friday

829
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,160
night.
And I'm sitting on the couch and

830
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,440
I have a Scotch in my hand and
I'm like this.

831
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,720
And I'm passed out and both my
boys are little.

832
00:36:25,720 --> 00:36:27,640
They're one's probably 5 and
one's 8.

833
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,320
And they're like holding toys,
like sticking against my face,

834
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,040
like smiling at the camera, like
making fun of me.

835
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,240
And I'm like dead with a Scotch
in my hand.

836
00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:37,400
It's like I didn't even make, I
didn't even make it to 1 sip.

837
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,920
I was just passed out.
I want to see that picture, I

838
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:41,640
think.
I think that one should be up on

839
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:42,600
the Internet.
No kidding.

840
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,440
Keep your family private.
I'm also I was going to say I'm

841
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:50,400
pretty impressed that you have a
long term marriage and a family.

842
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:56,640
This is rare like so is it cuz
she's amazing or what's up?

843
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,640
More than once yeah so my kids
are at the point now well let's

844
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,400
see once goes forth going in
medical school so I and I have

845
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,720
another one that's in so yeah
they're.

846
00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:08,640
So you can't retire because of
that?

847
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:09,800
Let's be real.
Come on.

848
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,560
Yeah, well, there's, well, yeah,
my youngest one who's in doing,

849
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:15,960
he wants to get into psychology.
He wants to be a doctor.

850
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,040
So he's got, he's working on now
his masters.

851
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:19,400
He's getting a double something
wrong.

852
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:20,480
I don't even know what the hell
it is.

853
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,160
So he calls me the other day and
he's like, my profession was

854
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,280
telling me that if I get this
and I do this, he can get me

855
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,480
into Harvard Medical School.
And I'm like, oh, great.

856
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:32,800
I'm just like, what's that cost?
That's impressive.

857
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,360
There's like no but long term.
So would you ever let them be in

858
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:37,720
the business if they wanted to
be?

859
00:37:37,720 --> 00:37:40,160
Like would you ever have let
them be child actors?

860
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,680
They one of them wants to do
something creative.

861
00:37:42,720 --> 00:37:45,320
Wyatt does not.
He wants to be a psychiatrist or

862
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,520
whatever because I have family
that's all in that industry too.

863
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,000
On the other side, my sisters.
But anyway, so if one of them

864
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,360
wants to do some creative, but
more in graphics carts and

865
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,760
stuff, not on the set.
I mean, they used to come visit

866
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,840
me on Mad Men when they were
little and you know, the camera

867
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,240
crew, like put them up on the
camera and let them shoot a

868
00:38:01,240 --> 00:38:03,200
shot, you know, a locked off
shot.

869
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:04,640
They'd be like, OK, that's
enough.

870
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,800
They were like, could we find
Duke, the truck transfer

871
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:09,320
coordinator because he's got a
golf cart?

872
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,000
We just want to go drive the
golf cart around the lot.

873
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,560
We're like, OK, so they would
literally spend the next six

874
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,600
hours zooming around the golf
cart on this on the back lot.

875
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:18,240
You know, that's all they want
to do.

876
00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:21,280
They want to do everything on
the set, so yeah, they weren't

877
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,320
impressed.
So you had the family life.

878
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:25,920
This is the quote I wanted to
say that I found about you.

879
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:28,560
You would try to avoid it.
But it's my show.

880
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:33,000
I get to go back to it.
It says you are credited with

881
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,400
being an integral part of the
ITV Studios success because of

882
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,280
your leadership and breaking
Capelli stories to life and like

883
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,560
listening to you.
Absolutely.

884
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:44,320
I think they sum that up really
well.

885
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,560
Who's in the PR department?
Like why do they like you so

886
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:48,240
much?
Like what's going on with that?

887
00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:51,200
You know, I have to say my deal
when I start.

888
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,280
I said look, I've never worked
corporate before.

889
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,320
I said look, when this came up
and I said look, I'll go give it

890
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,520
six months and try this and I
deal investigating of these

891
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,120
people I was working for and I
heard great things about them.

892
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,040
My bosses, people that work with
are all great.

893
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,960
I mean, the company is
everything from the legal down

894
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,920
is what do you call open door
policy.

895
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,320
It's like we all cover for no
one stabs each other in the

896
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:18,240
back, other studios, places,
yeah, comes from the top being

897
00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:22,880
very, very good to everyone,
very supportive, 100% everyone

898
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,200
who helps each other, Everyone
works with each other.

899
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:27,280
Everyone goes.
If I got a problem, you go in

900
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,000
that person's office and talk to
them about it.

901
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:30,840
We all work out problems
together.

902
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:32,840
It's been a great, great
experience.

903
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,120
It wasn't, I would have gone
back probably to the trenches of

904
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,880
producing shows of my, you know,
or what out there on that.

905
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,920
So they've been really, really
great about that.

906
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:44,400
So I've, I've been blessed with
working for a great company who

907
00:39:44,720 --> 00:39:47,640
with really good people.
And you know what, we only hired

908
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:49,800
good, other people only hire
good people.

909
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,240
And then under me, I hire good
people that I've worked with

910
00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:55,000
that, you know, I try to hire
people who actually worked in

911
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:56,560
production.
Matter of fact, my senior vice

912
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,000
president of production used to
be a production coordinator.

913
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:00,920
So he's been, he's been through
the shit.

914
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:03,480
So.
I don't know.

915
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,840
Men move out of the position so
much faster.

916
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:07,640
If a girl gets stuck, you're
stuck.

917
00:40:07,720 --> 00:40:09,200
The boys get out.
Yeah.

918
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:10,400
He's.
Like I get even they went to

919
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:11,800
work for AMC that he's working
for me.

920
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,560
He's worked for me for five to
six years now, something like

921
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,320
that, maybe longer, you know,
But yeah, I know he's like, so

922
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,560
he under he gets it.
He knows what goes on and said

923
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,000
he knows what goes on in the
office, production office.

924
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,640
You know, it's not just someone
who sits on it.

925
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,680
We don't sit in an ivory tower.
And you know, we're, we're best

926
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:31,200
friends with the productions and
help them out and work with them

927
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:33,720
through all their problems
instead of just going, you know

928
00:40:33,720 --> 00:40:35,200
what your budget is, figure it
out.

929
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,440
It's the most annoying thing.
It's the most annoying.

930
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,720
I know I always wanted to jump
into like spelling corporate

931
00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:44,240
because I worked with, I worked
there for like 3 years for

932
00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:46,960
different shows and stuff.
And I was like, can I jump up?

933
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:48,160
They're like, yeah, there's no
space, man.

934
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,520
We have, we have our people.
I was like, Dang, come on, come

935
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,680
on.
Because I was like up at 5 right

936
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:55,440
every morning and not home until
like 9.

937
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:57,440
I was like, can I just do the
corporate thing for a little

938
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,240
while?
I think people don't understand

939
00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:03,600
like what production is or what
it takes to do that.

940
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:08,240
And it really is long hours with
a lot of personalities.

941
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,000
So what's your like?
What's your go to thing to calm

942
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:17,800
people down?
Besides Scotch, obviously.

943
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,080
Listen to them and go I feel
your pain.

944
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:25,520
I don't know, you know, you sort
of what helps is being what

945
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,120
helps is being honest with them
in a way as honest as you can

946
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,200
be.
Say I understand your problem.

947
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,360
No, you may not have that toy
and here's why we can't afford

948
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:34,600
it.
And here's why.

949
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:36,640
Because I've got, you know,
you've already, I got this, we

950
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,760
have this, that's all we got.
Or this is, you know, it's never

951
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,160
going to.
And I try not to be that person

952
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:46,000
who goes, you know, no, no, no,
I'm going to may say no, but

953
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:47,560
here's why I'm going to say no.
Right.

954
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,800
And you know, if you let them,
they'll ask for the world and

955
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:52,480
then never.
And half the time, you know,

956
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,240
when they ask for the techno
crane, they're.

957
00:41:54,240 --> 00:41:56,400
Never gonna be.
They'll never get around to it

958
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:57,520
that.
Day and it breaks.

959
00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:59,800
It breaks.
And I'll talk to the production

960
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:01,040
man.
And I'm like, I know, we know.

961
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:02,360
And I'm like, you wanna pay for
it?

962
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:03,920
Have them sit there.
But you know what's gonna

963
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:05,640
happen?
And he's like, yeah, we know.

964
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,480
And to get it there is such a
pain in the ass too.

965
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,840
It's like just to get it there.
Forget it now.

966
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,200
Yeah, and then there's always
damage and then they always

967
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,480
like, oh, they nicked the bar or
whatever the hell.

968
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:17,120
It's always.
Something.

969
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:18,920
Now they nicked the wall.
It's the wall.

970
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,040
It's the side of a building or a
car.

971
00:42:21,240 --> 00:42:24,840
No, the the industry thing is
the heck no Crane, No, heck no.

972
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:29,280
You may not have the techno.
No, I call them as we call them.

973
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:32,320
Somebody someone told me a long
time ago we call them TSTS, time

974
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,680
sucking toys, but no more TSTS
today because you're never going

975
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:37,840
around to using them.
Oh my God I love that.

976
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,440
I wish I knew that then.
I wish I knew that then.

977
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,000
OK, so I'm your time is money
because you're you're the big

978
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,000
guy in town.
But I want to know, is there

979
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,400
like some dream project that you
wish you could bring into the

980
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:51,240
world?
Like is there anything like that

981
00:42:51,240 --> 00:42:54,840
that exists for you?
Not really.

982
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,360
You know, we have a couple of
projects coming up.

983
00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:58,800
Well, it's not a secret, I
guess.

984
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,880
F1, the series on Amazon, in
Amazon.

985
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:07,040
We're writing the scripts now.
It's not Greenlee yet, so I may.

986
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:09,800
Are you going to become a medic
again just to be on set?

987
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:11,600
Because.
I'm not going to need it.

988
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,360
God, no, I don't I there's no
way I would ever go and I was

989
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:17,920
shooting like 5 countries.
I I that I would, I would kill

990
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:18,840
me.
Probably my age.

991
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:20,960
I it takes it takes 10 years off
my life.

992
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:22,680
You're thinking my sciatica
alone.

993
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:26,080
My sciatica forget.
It I can't do that, I'll be glad

994
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:28,720
to watch the cash register.
I'll be glad to be around and

995
00:43:28,720 --> 00:43:30,680
help out.
But as far as hands on

996
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:34,160
physically, no.
So I mean that's a possibility

997
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,880
towards the end of the year.
We'll have to see what happens

998
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,200
with that.
It's just it's so funky what you

999
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:43,520
think are just, you know, green
lit, done deals that make no

1000
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:45,320
sense why they would ever say
no.

1001
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,360
They say no and you just don't
know why.

1002
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,600
Spend all this money and then go
no, no.

1003
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,760
So who's above you?
Like who is who?

1004
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,280
Who do you report to there I.
Report to The only person I

1005
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:02,240
report is Philippe Mcgray, who
is the president of ITV Studios.

1006
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,360
So he's the only one above me
and I have a couple other I have

1007
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,720
a head of we have a head of
business affairs who's also at

1008
00:44:08,720 --> 00:44:14,840
EVP, who else is EVP, finance,
EVP, couple of people that

1009
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:18,520
straddle reality in the company
and us kind of handle both

1010
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,280
obviously this infrastructure
like HR and all that kind of

1011
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,880
stuff.
Now above me basically is that,

1012
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,640
but then of course, Philippe
reports to the to Europe, to the

1013
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:31,880
mothership, which is in Republic
of Credit Corporation obviously,

1014
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:33,880
and London.
So based in London.

1015
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:35,720
So he goes.
He's over there actually right

1016
00:44:35,720 --> 00:44:37,720
now for the 60s.
That's why I was asking you

1017
00:44:37,720 --> 00:44:40,280
about Graham Norton.
I'm a long time Graham Norton

1018
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:41,840
fan.
I just think he's so funny like

1019
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:43,600
his.
I don't I don't want to know

1020
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:47,480
about the show because I found
him funny and it took me I think

1021
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,640
and again, I was like a barely a
pinky toe in the industry

1022
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:53,080
compared to you.
I think it took me 5 years to be

1023
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:56,080
able to watch something and not
be like I know where they shot

1024
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,520
that, where they parked the
cars, where the extras, how many

1025
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:00,400
did like.
That's a great story because

1026
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,640
honestly, people used to.
I go, I work all weekend like

1027
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:04,440
what's your the weekend?
Oh, I went, went to the movies

1028
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,000
and watched 2 movies.
I'm like, I can't.

1029
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,880
I literally it's like watching
someone else's problems on the

1030
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:11,320
screen.
If I sit there, it's like I

1031
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:13,520
start breaking into a sweat and
I'm like, oh God, look at all

1032
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,000
those extras.
Oh look where they're shooting.

1033
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,400
I know where that is.
That's a bitch of a location.

1034
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:19,720
I'm like I can't look at.
I can't even look at a show.

1035
00:45:19,720 --> 00:45:22,560
I do like even a Mad Men.
I couldn't watch.

1036
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:27,200
I could watch the episodes, what
they were, kind of give some

1037
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:29,960
notes, you know, dabble a little
bit.

1038
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,280
But it literally took me until
about a couple years ago where I

1039
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:36,160
could go back and literally just
watching the episode you go,

1040
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:38,760
it's not that bad.
I want to respect your time, so

1041
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,520
I'm going to thank you for
joining.

1042
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,680
Like I can listen to your
stories probably more, but I

1043
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:48,000
would love to know if you came
with a warning label, what would

1044
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:49,600
it be?
Don't trust him.

1045
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:55,640
No warning label.
You get what you get and you

1046
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:57,200
don't get upset.
I don't know it's.

1047
00:45:58,240 --> 00:45:59,240
Good.
It's good.

1048
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:00,840
He's like.
Here I am.

1049
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,880
That's it, buddy.
Yeah, I mean, again, like it's

1050
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,000
incredible that you seem to have
maintained, like, you know, that

1051
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:09,840
little memory that I have that
you were pretty level headed,

1052
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,800
easygoing, but direct and ran
the ship.

1053
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,480
That's rare because usually
there's a lot of like, assholes

1054
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,880
on set.
Yeah, the old days of the

1055
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:21,720
screaming first a DS that's
over.

1056
00:46:21,720 --> 00:46:24,320
Those people all died of massive
heart attacks on set.

1057
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,760
Well, Dwayne, thank you so much
for being a part of the Holly

1058
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,160
Hughes podcast.
I really appreciate your time

1059
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:33,560
and I wish you an easy ease out
of the industry whenever you're

1060
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:34,960
ready.
But I hope you're not ready too

1061
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:37,520
soon because you sound like one
of the winners out there, one of

1062
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:38,640
the keepers.
So thank you you're.

1063
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:39,680
Welcome.
Thank you.