The Real Reason We Travel: People, Not Places | Jae Choi

0:10 Welcome to the Holly Hughes podcast. Today I am very excited to have my friend Jay Choi, who is the founder of Good Mate Travel. But really he's so much more than that. And I'm very excited that you're reaching out from across the world to have a conversation with me late at night for you and early in the morning ish for me. How are you today, Jay? Feeling great. How are you doing, Ali? I'm good, I'm good. I want to talk about so many things with you because I know you because I traveled across the world to meet you. I picked you, a stranger off the Internet, to go tour a country I only had dreams about. I didn't have any expectations, but I chose Goodmay Travel because you promised an authentic like local experience of Korea and it is something that you deliver and so much more. So I am so curious like what made you start your company? How?

1:09 How did all of this come to? Pass. I love to talk about my work and how things started. OK, so looking back to my early teens, like a youth, so in Korea, I think growing up I was the person who really, really cared about other people. And I think one of the reason is because we used to have our own social media. So the first time that I was in a social media with my friends were when I was what, like 12 years old. And because of that, after grown up, when I was 18, I was up, I became the person who really, really, really cared about other person. And I had no idea what I want to do, but just wanted to be please others.

2:05 And that's when I was more like panicking and didn't know what was going on. So I ran away to the Army. And then I tried to find a way to move forward and figure it out what I'm going to do for my life in a way. And still I couldn't really figure it out. So that's when I've decided to write a letter to the random CEOs. So I sent about 5 or 6 letters to random fields and surprisingly most of them reply and I met a few of them. And the conclusion was basically to tell me that I could take some time and find my own happiness and go travel. And that's when I sort of thought about go traveling the word.

2:59 But I didn't have any money. I didn't know what to do and, and, and I wasn't able to speak English at all like like nothing. And I was like 20 years old. But the people that I met in person, but the CEO, I think he gave me the encouragement and that kind of I believe in myself. And at the same time, I had nothing to to lose and I decided to travel and I left the country with I think like $1000 and I came back to Korea after four years. So that's kind of, I'm just talking you asking how the company started and I'm talking about my travel study. So basically I no, that's good.

3:44 That's. Good. You were finding yourself. I love that. But I didn't know you were gone for three to four years like I knew you did. You're in Korea, there's mandatory military service, right? But that you explored and I love that you wrote letters. It's very similar how I started this, right? I was like, you know what, I'm just going to ask people even before I know what's going on because sometimes when you know too much, you stop and you just went for it. I love that about you. Thank you. So yeah, that's how I left the country and then traveled. And after four years of traveling and, and I visited many different countries, what I realized was the people I met in the road changed me and my life. And to me at least looking back my travels, it was not where I went, but who I met.

4:40 So that was what I learned and experienced from my travels. And then I came back to Korea and I used to work for corporate and one day I went to the market, traditional market just to eat. And then, you know, like it just became a food tour because I went there with my friends and they really liked it. And I just wanted to do some slide gig, some something different. And my tour was mainly focusing on not only food, but also people in the market. And I saw that people really enjoyed it. So that was a back in 2018 and 9, 2019, I quit my job and became a full time travel host and did a lot of tours and which was a lot of fun.

5:33 But at the same time it was a challenge because I worked by myself. But then still I was OK, doing pretty OK. And I plan to expand my company, but COVID did. So that's when I start to make content about this in Korean in a fun way. It's in culture. But then my plan and my hope was like through this content, you know, connect with people and bring them to Korea and do the tour with that. So that was the ideal. And after two years of creating content and people actually start to come visit to Korea and come back to me. So that's why I could organize not only one day food at work, but multi day chapels.

6:22 So that's how things started. And I think throughout those, here's what I realized. I really, really like connecting people together and, and I see that at least I'm happy when I'm connected with somebody. And I believe that people need other people, even if you're not people person and traveling is more like a excuse to be surrounded by people. Yeah, you're very humble. You're this like, first of all, you're magical because you, you all the changes you made for your life. I think in your trips you provide for others, right? So he and I were talking a little bit before the record button hit and I was telling Jay that like in this room that I'm sitting in right now, I'm surrounded by everything like it's within.

7:22 I could touch, right. I got my I have like this. I got in the Korean food market tour. My I got that there. Like for me, every moment of see, I'll get sentimental every moment of that trip, like it changed me. Oh my God, I'm getting weepy. So, but it was because solo travel, and I think I picked you and Chris, those random men on the Internet because you looked fun and you looked like you cared or for some strange reason I thought I was going to be safe with you knowing that I was. I am still to this day, I'm terrible at Korea. I always try and it just doesn't stay in my brain.

8:06 So you connected me to a place I wanted to go and brought me places and brought me experiences with women. In my group that was all women. There's not always, but we were all solo travelers and now we're all getting the same tattoo and now we talk to each other from all over the world and we're all over the world. None of us are in the same time zone right now and we have these shared memories and desires and curiosities. So when you say your food tour, I think the last time I looked, I think you had over 2005 star reviews on, you know, some TripAdvisor thing like you downplay it, but you walk in the market. And for people who are obsessed, it's the Netflix noodle lady.

8:48 But really my favorite is the woman who you get the small saw shell crabs from and you're in the market. And as we walk through, it's your personal relationships with each vendor that we come to that it's just it's embracing. So you as a stranger someplace, I feel also embraced because we're welcomed into a culture that I want to learn about and that we get to literally get bite sized pieces and like lured in more. I think you lure people and you know, when you end the tour with the chimac, right, Chimac and and octopus, right? So it just it's, it's everything. And that was that's like the first day. I think that's the first day of the other tour, right? So if you just do a food tour, you get all of these delicious sensations.

9:39 And if you do a longer 1, you get to experience like diving in head first on day one, No dream almost gets unfulfilled. So I just, I think you should own that more. I think you're always very humble, which is probably part of your charm, right? But you've created these experiences based on your own. I know like in your older social media, you talk about when you were younger, how you felt self-conscious as a kid about what is your expectations? So it was that like coming up as an only like the only child, the son, Is it a Busan thing? Is it a Korean expectation thing? What?

10:23 What do you think? Like planted that seed in you. I think that's because I'm Korean from the city called Orson, which is also one of the conservative area. And a lot of our classmates, our parents, you know, like, and my friends family, like 80% they used to work for big corporate like Kortande, you know, so in a way, like it was pretty similar, like a similar lifestyle. And there was certain pressure, which is like at certain age you got to do certain things and so on and so on. And I didn't really fit into the box. And I thought I was wrong, you know, but still I didn't fit it. So it was so hard.

11:15 And I think because of that, here I am. Like what I'm saying is like, even there are certain moments that because of my childhood and the environment that where I was definitely something that helped me to grow as a person who I am right now. But also I think I travel at a young age and the whole world was new to me. So I call myself because I'm really Korean, Korean. I'm Korean that really care about one another's tale or what I'm saying is like care about others a lot and try to read a room and people. And at the same time I traveled and then I saw more like a new things and new opportunities.

12:01 Now when you guys do the group tour, which is a group activity, it's not always easy, right? It's because it takes a lot of respect and care to each other and in the rules and so on and so on, which is it's almost training, right? Because you got to be in certain time, you got to go from there. But surprisingly, after one week of doing a lot of difficulties and we share this some strange energy together and stay positive as a friend. Because I grew up where I was in Rusan with this kind of environment where I have to more like a care one another, it was hard to be different.

12:44 But at the same time, I travel to work and experience something different. And those two, you know, like environment sort of made me like who I am right now. Yeah, your care, you do, you give a lot of care on your tours. There's, you know, balancing 15 plus personalities. I mean that that's a lot of work. And you're very funny, by the way. Like everyone should know he's like funny and joking. And you can get to be serious, but you take time to try to meet the needs of people right in where we are because not every day is a good day for everybody. I don't envy you to do that. Like I don't, I wouldn't have the energy to like do that. But it's part of the magic that you provide for people like you bring us to all of these places and then care like you just you just care.

13:37 So I think probably many people fall in love with you along the way, you know, just because you're so like kind and that's part of the magic sauce of it all. But you're not just a tour guide, right? You have a whole team of people around you and you're always on the phone working, right. You have you look at his face. You're. Always busy. That's a shame, that shame that I've shown you that I'm busy. I'm on the phone. That's. Easy. No, but I, I'm an observer. I I only really noticed more because I got sick last time. So I wasn't able to be as up as I wanted to be or energetic.

14:20 I was like kind of watching. I love watching, by the way, but I think when we were there, I think you were getting calls from Netflix, right, to do that Squid Game event that you did that, right? So like, how does Netflix find you? When I was doing a market tour and I posted a couple and again, like I was genuinely enjoying the tour and and giving them the suggestion and so on and so on. But apparently one of them was the PR manager for Netflix and she really really enjoyed the time with me. Once they plan their trip to Korea, she asked me if we could host the Quantum Market tour. But then back then she didn't know that we actually do more than just Quantum Market for the tour. So it just extended like from market war to another cultural experiences and so on and so on.

15:13 Those last year like a December and then this year for the Squid Game Season 3 and we've hosted the Netflix team and the creators once again. I remember I can see you spinning like thinking a lot about like what to do. But then when I saw it all, I was like, that's what he was up to. And again, you make it like it's not a big thing, but you have a very creative side, right? And you've explored that. I've read scripts of yours, right? And you tried to also make a show similar to The Office, but your version. So I just want to, I'm curious about that creative part of you, right? And how, how do you weave that into running a company where you're expanding people?

16:03 I want to like, also know about how you manage people because finding someone who inspires people to work for you like that's, that's another whole thing. By the way, your Squid Game 3 promos had some of the biggest influencers in that little clip and you're like, Oh yeah, you know, I did a thing. It's like, oh, I had you over for tea, have a coffee. No, you had like David saw was in there and like a few other bigger. I don't they as big in Korea as they are in the states, those influencers or? I think some, not everybody, but some people know them for sure. OK, so did did Netflix gather them all for you or is that something you had to do?

16:45 Yes, I mean, it was a their promotion trip, so they invited like a bunch of creators from all over the world. But then we worked with Netflix, the US team, and they came with about 40 creators and they have owned their official schedule and also there were some different activities and schedule and we hosted some part of it. OK, so you've worked with Netflix and you've gone on to do things like try to create your own show. Can you tell me what inspired you to try to do that? OK, so it's not something big again. It's more like I think I like to imagine and and and do it.

17:30 That's kind of what I like. And I love comedy and I want to be remembered as a funny person. I like funny person, let's say, so that I want to be funny too. And often I watch comedy shows and one of the favorite drama sitcom as The Office. So one day I was my friend and we were making some fun content, but that's when we thought about doing some fun project. And that was sort of Korean style of the office because we were sitting in the office by the time and we just got inspired and we did it and which was a big fail, but it was good, good, good try. How to say?

18:22 A big failure. So funny. Well, you know, my podcast is about talking to creative people about living a creative life. So not everything we all do is the biggest success or whatever, but it was a passion of yours. You have to have a lot of passion to do all the work, especially because you were basically producing and acting. I don't know if you had another director. Did you have someone else direct? Yeah, we, we had one director and he also like did a villain. With you, how many episodes did you actually shoot? Wait, the 10 episodes, so 10 minutes, 10 episodes, So it's it's at 100 minutes, but none of them are on live.

19:07 You can ask me. You can ask me. They're not on YouTube hiding just a little. Bit no, no, no, no, just a little and it's somewhere in the high up driver. I know I saw some though. Did you take it down? It was up for a little bit. Really like I, I think we've almost like some clips on social media on on Instagram, but then whole app is so it's a stories, right? And it's like a 10 minutes of app like a show. But I've realized after doing all this work, I was like, OK, I'm not the right person. It's not that easy job, I mean, you know.

19:47 So still, I think I will do it again, maybe in the future. I've learned a lot. But yeah, it was a good learning. What do you think you learned the most? Was it like that logistics, like putting it all together is can be much harder than people think? Or was it being a character in your own show? I think it was about the story and basically I'll just say looking back at it wasn't one of the first teamwork that I've done. And somehow the sense of humor and the team didn't meet to each other. We had a writer and then he wrote because his things are funny and I found it funny, but directly found that it's not funny.

20:37 So somehow, you know, so I think rather than the technical things, the whole storyline, it's more like because it was like Korean style, which is the sense of humor. Korean sense of humor is different to the Western sense of humor, right? And but then we the show was in English and and we tried to, you know, like they wasn't people watch. I think you should do it in Korean you. Should do it. You should do it. For the Koreans, so tell me what what is on your list now? What is your To Do List like this week? Frankly speaking, right now my whole life is about what I call work.

21:19 But like, you may travel the brand and I truly, truly believe that. I mean, first of all, I feel so lucky that I do something that I really, really enjoy. So I'm so lucky that I can do this as a work. And now I'm no longer working by myself. We have a team and I somehow became a leader all of a sudden. And again, I'm lucky that I'm surrounded by great people and we are building something really meaningful and, and, and, and powerful to the world. I believe as a leader, I think I have to work hard first of all, for sure, but also be a good leader, you know, And so I would say I really enjoy the work.

22:06 I think about work this all the time. I was curious because so I know you have other teams who helped lead towards right? You know you have a group of people, so how many tours that are the original could be tour in the Jeju tour, how many times a year are those available now? So good question. Yeah, right now we are focusing more like into more like a good mate original tours. And now we have only two tours, which is 1 is a tip dies and another to Jeju. And then we are working on something new right now. Like we want to offer like different options, you know, like they can be some, you know, like budget friendly tour, it can be or like food focus tour and and you know, like some different kinds of tours, so.

23:05 I would like to say you give a lot of food when you sit and eat with good meat. I was like, I remember one time you're like Holly, you're done eating. You're like, that's the appetizer. I was like, Oh my God, I'm so full. I'm so full. So if anyone is curious, curious about Korean food, you really get to taste and even learn to cook some. And I took that home with me. And I, I make my kimchi and green onion pancakes at home and I have the right flour from the recipe we got. And I, I do the whole thing because I love it so much. But there's no shortage of food, no shortage. And it's delicious. It's insanely delicious.

23:46 So I just wanted to tell people now I'm getting hungry. You have 8 day tours. Like as someone who travelled across the globe, right? So I think my total travel including getting to the airport and transfers was 2526 hours for me. And there's a 13 hour time difference. I would offer to people come a few days earlier to just kind of get in the time zone because once the tours start they're busy, he says. There's free time, but really you'd like devour everything and there's like no free time. There's more time to hang out and connect, but you're not going to nap. I think the first day on the first tour I did, we were in in Sadang and I was like, oh, I just need like 1/2 hour because I wasn't quite on the time zone yet.

24:34 But by the time I took the bus and got back to Myong Dong, I had like 5 minutes and then I had to get back on the bus to come meet up. When I was like, well that wasn't the smuggle. I was like right, Because I didn't, I didn't know anything. Now. Now when I go, I was like, oh, I get on that bus line, I'm going to pass that. It's funny, I have no sense of direction like where I live, but you put me like in a few neighborhoods in Seoul and I was like, oh, I know that place. I know that place. Even when I went back this spring, I was like, oh, I know where I am. And, and my family was like, there's no way you know where you are. I was like, I know even Sarah, who's my friend that I made on the trip when we first met on the day before the first trip, she had been there.

25:21 And Sarah is a powerhouse and she's like 4 inches shorter than me. And she basically dragged me literally because I was out of my tree. I was like, not in the time zone at all. Mentally. She's like, are you OK? I'm like, I don't even know my name right now. She just dragged me everywhere. And we forced ourselves to kind of stay awake to get on the time zone. But she has a sense of direction. So I just blindly followed yet another stranger that I had just texted with on WhatsApp. And we went up to Nam sum and we did all this stuff. And now she's like one of my dearest people in my life, but no sense of direction. But now this time I was like, Hey, that's that. And hey, that's where that is. And I know I turned left here.

26:03 So I don't know what it is and why I feel so at home there because I shouldn't, right? I'm terrible at the language and I'm not there all the time, but it's part of why I want to spend a month and, and not just like visiting or doing things like, but like to live, right, Like to work there, like a little bit of travel. I would totally go back to a pension and like just a slower pace to see what it, that experience would be like because I know I will always be a guest. I will always be a tourist there. But there's also different, I think degrees of like what that entails, right? Would, would, would you guys ever do that because you make all these people fall in love with the country? Would you ever be like, Hey, we have a bunch long thing and we meet once a week and we'll see you once a week. That would be fun.

26:58 I'm going to. I'm going to make you do more for me, is what I'm saying. Just like that would be so fun. You put that in your noodles so you could think about that. I think you're expanding countries too. Aren't you going to expand? Yes, that's another exciting part of the journey. We are expanding to Japan and hopefully we can open a tour sometime in spring or it's not that sometime often. So tell me about a little bit about your team, Like who the people who work for you now? Well, we are group of 15 people including the office numbers and also like inside for host. Fun fact about our team is the majority people are like friends, you know, so the people that I know people are friends of friends and we just become a team, you know, so always there's a somebody that I know in between. So, yeah, and everybody has different backgrounds and a lot of them also used to work for big corporate and and different fields.

28:02 But then I think they saw the vision, the possibility of what we are building and you know, they sort of really aligned with our company vision, which is connecting people through experiences. So it's fairly new team and we do little things together, the team and yeah, so it's been really fun. So if you could tell something to your younger self as you are now like to that person who is feeling lost, would what would you tell them? Would it be like the same information you got from those CE OS? Yes.

28:44 So I would say, I think what I realized when I met the CEO was I've never done something on my own before. I've always did something because what my family tell me to do what the society tell me to do and so on and so on. But once I start to make my own choice, my own decision and make mistakes and and two little things, I think that's kind of where when I realized about myself, about the words about society. So even if and I feel like I'm lucky that I went into travel when I was young and did a lot of litter, dumb things and realize about myself, about the place where I am, about the word.

29:35 So I think 2 little thing is what I would say, what I would advise to my younger self if possible. What advice do you think you would give yourself in 10 years to who you are now? I would say take care of people next to you, which is family. And I think the biggest challenge right now is the balance between the work and the family. And I do everything I do because of my family and, and also, you know, like me.

30:17 But often when I'm working, I forget about this. So I think it's not easy still, but I want to be aware of this fact all the time. I think is am I your unni or nuna Am I your unni like older sister right. I think for someone, I am Hyis manic sometimes where I focus very intense on work and then family. So I don't believe in balance. I think that's a lie we've all been told. But I think there's rhythm, right? Where some days you might have to focus more on work or solving problems and other days I think I mean what I know about you and what I think people listening or learning is like. You come from your heart in everything you do, right? You.

31:19 It starts with care that you care. It's easy to disappoint that part who's always caring, right? Because oh, I didn't do enough. Or that can be a thought. Or I could do more depending on how you think or next time I should, or how do I do both and how do I not upset someone. And I think it really comes down to the words you choose more like I'm thinking about you. But until I finish this thing right here, I won't be giving you my full attention. And I want to get better at that. So I'm going to work on that. But I think working with anyone who works a lot or living with someone, any artist or creative person who gets on a roll, meaning like where you're in it and you want to finish it. And you see, sometimes we don't see the people around us as much or they could be annoying that they're around us, right? Because we just want to finish.

32:19 And I find that learning the right words to communicate that you need that also takes pressure off and you can finish the work sooner. I mean, I have always been freelance. I tried working in corporate twice and it was it was awful both times. But there are Times Now even when my man candy, which is everyone knows is what I call my husband is like, it's Sunday stop. And I'm like, but no, I have to, I have to know more about the person I want to talk to. I want to read all of their work. I want to understand more or if I'm writing, it's like I have to finish getting the idea out before it goes away. So that I think is the hardest part about living with creative people is that we have this drive and it's different and we usually have big hearts. So it can be like in conflict, but that and you know, unplug your phone an hour before you go to bed away from you. Oh.

33:16 Which no one does. That's like like when I work with clients, I'm like, so where's your phone? They're like, it's my alarm clock. I'm like, I dare you to plug it in the kitchen an hour before you go to bed and don't look at it. And that also helps you connect and unwind. So I'll just offer that up to my favorite travel person. So I think you have so much like in you and you're curious about all the people you encounter. And I find it very fascinating that you have a very international group every time in your tours, right? It's not, they're not like locals at all, but they're not just Americans.

34:04 It's a lot of Europeans, a lot of so is there, are there what is in common with all the people who come on your on your tour? I think it's depends on the tours because we have a lot of inbates tour. So if it's about K drama, then people who Oh yeah, you do 10 drama, right, right, right, right. So it really depends on the topic, like the theme. So people who really enjoy the topic, then they come from all over the world. I forgot about that one. He was in our hotel and I didn't even see him. I was very upset because Vera got a picture with him. But yeah, but like, like even your original tour, is there something that you find that we all have in common? I think people who joined the tour, they are open to try something new.

34:55 I, I think being in a group tour takes a lot of courage because it's, it's not something easy. And I, I have a lot of friends who've never done the group tourists. And I think there's a way more people who've never done the group tour than the people who actually did a group tour. And that's because travel is something that you do whatever you want to. And it seems like you just go somewhere you want to and be free. That's kind of a traveling that we know kind of right. And the group tourist is in a way like you go with the group of strangers that you don't know, which is already a little bit, you know something, it's not always easy, but then you decide to be in a group and do things together and try to get to know one another and bring things together.

35:45 So I think a lot of people who join the tour because everybody's different, but then one thing that for sure is that they come with open minded and try open minded. Well, you can't say that phrase. What are you saying? What are you saying? And and not hung day. Not hung day, boy. Open minded. Different. Very different. All right. I'd also like to offer like my experience of it, why it was such a good choice for me was being unsure of the language. You treat us like adults, right? You're like, we meet here at this time. The tour starts On this date, so you can come before the tour again. I would recommend that so you can get on the time zone or just sleep for 30 hours, which is what I think I did the first time.

36:32 And then what's amazing about it is you're like, be here at this time, but you take care of the hotels and they're very nice and transportation like. There's no figuring things out. You can just be childlike in your wonder and enjoyment because I'm not responsible like I was like I don't have to figure out where to eat for dinner or where to get a coffee or or who I should go see that with. Or will I be there alone? The answer is you're never alone unless you need some time away and then you can just take it and there is always something interesting and and there's always an experience waiting and you don't have to work for it.

37:18 So I, I know you and Chris both discussed like, you know, the cost of the trip. I think it's very reasonable for everything that you get. So I appreciate also that you both that you as a company consider that is an expense for people to do this and then you treat it respectfully that way as well. So that was kind of, that was a little bit, you know, magical so. Thank you. Thank you. No, like you said, a lot of people make a lot of decision in a daily life basis. But then making decision, it takes energy, right? So being a group tour, one other fun thing is because we take care of everything.

38:02 So you don't have to worry about making decision but just be a child and just come along and have fun. I giggled. I giggled especially on the first one when I first met everyone. For me it was, Oh my God, these people. I finally met people who are curious about the things I'm curious about. I met people like, so I don't have a lot of that around me. I'm just kind of weird, which is fine. I'm used to it. But like, you know, for me it was like, oh, you wait. Oh, and you can actually, Oh my God, and you and what have you been there? And I went, it was like when I have when my mother even saw me dressed up in my humbook. And she's like, I haven't seen a smile like that on your face since you were a little girl. Yeah.

38:47 And that is always. She's like your smile when you're there is ridiculous. And I always get a little sad when I come home because then it's back to work and life and like all the things and responsibility. But there, it's just magic. And really, I laugh. I I, I like stamp my foot, slap the table, laugh like even I think we were playing foosball and Jeju and we were awful at it. Like you probably were playing bad on purpose. But like I couldn't stop laughing that night. And it's just the, it's the little things in life that become so big and in and wonderful again when you get a chance to escape your everyday normal routine. So if anyone out is listening, I think I highly recommend travel because first of all, you find out the world isn't as awful as the Internet tells you that there are plenty of really good people and there's so much that we don't know about each other. And it's fun to learn.

39:55 It's fun to experience a culture and a place that is not like your own. You will make more friends than you can imagine. I think that was also the magic of going there for me and why I always tell my warning label, right, which is, I will talk about Korea. Obviously you can pick up on that. But I want to say thank you to Jay for coming because it's very late at night for him. But I want to ask, I like to wrap up every interview with what is your warning label? So, Mr. Jay Choi, what is your warning label? Once you ask me this question, I thought about it, and then I wrote easily excited, frequently exhausted, and.

40:46 That is good. That is you. I'm very kind and very kind. Frequently excited. I love that. OK, well, I'm looking forward to like what you create with Goodmate Travel and the Korean version of your show. Thank you, Jay for being on my podcast, The Holly Hughes Podcast, and I will be seeing you again in person soon. I will see you sometime soon. Thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure to be talking to you.