What Happens When You Tell the Truth Through Art | Akira Tsuboi

0:10 Good morning and welcome to the Holly Hughes Podcast. Today my guests are coming from Busan, South Korea and I'm very excited because I personally have gotten to meet one of them a few times in the past and she made my visit to Korea quite memorable and quite personable. And today we are interviewing both Akiratsu Boy, who is an artist, and Wuhi Choi, who is a tour guide and host and our interpreter for the day. So thank you for joining me. Hello. Hello. Thanks for giving this occasion.

0:50 Yeah, so Akilah is an artist and I've seen much of your work online and I would love to introduce people to you and your work through the story of how you and Wuhi met. Duke, OK was 2018 March 28th, spring season in Korea. And I went to a park which called the Democracy Park. And to go to top I need to pass the exhibition center and just the only two, three steps, then one picture left on my minds and oh, what was that picture? And I went back and yeah, I saw one really touched pictures about nuclear accidents, which it happened in Fukushima and the problems in Korea too.

1:53 There are many informations about Fukushima nuclear accidents, but everything's about what someone heard about. But under the picture on the on the floor, there were papers, a full size papers, which is about what is really happening in Fukushima. And the painter and the writer, same person, literally he was was there and interviewing victims in Fukushima. And yeah, during I read the papers and one man said, excuse me, night time. That was a like Cage Rama. You know, it's common in Korea.

2:37 Do you have a handsome artist be by his work in a park? Yes, of course. That's every day. It's every. Day at that time she wore a very tight suit, very stylish person. So I wonder if I wanted to talk this person. Was your hair long then, or was it also short? The same, yeah. She's. Never changed. I know she wears these suits. It's quite striking. Yeah, it's very handful. My very. And he thoughts, Yeah, he couldn't recognize is she or he.

3:20 And he just to say I need to say something. And yeah, excuse me. And that's how we met. And yeah, the first impression about him was a long, thin black man. He wore a black jacket. It was April, so a bit chilly, So. Yeah, long thing like a pencil. That's funny. How did you get to display your work? Because what I have learned about exploring Korean history is I learned a lot more about Japanese history beyond the beauty. Japanese are very good at showing their beautiful side, but I think your art exposes the other side, like the reality behind the beauty.

4:08 How are you able to have that exhibition there in Busan? How did that happen? In fact, there is a Korean friend and Korean curators who offer to have the exhibition. In Korea it is not difficult, but in Japan almost very, very difficult. To do exhibition. Yeah, to have an exhibition and the curator whom I met in Kwanji Vienare, many Korean curator very surprised about my artwork and they they feel pleasure that oh, this Japanese start to express what they want. So quickly we get closer and have the exhibition in Brazil. That's amazing because you studied in Tokyo. Yes, you studied.

5:01 Art in Tokyo, not art. Not art. Yeah, he. I'm self self-taught artist. His major is German literature. I call him literature boy, city boy, Tokyo boy. I love that, really. What made you start? Did you always draw? Yeah, recently, yeah, yeah. At first when I was 2120, young, young wage, I painted basing on my emotion, just only pure emotion. But after that, gradually I wanted to express the other persons, so needed to go to the place and started to listen to what their experiences.

5:56 After that, I had to check the historical that techist, you know, tech text or how to check the books and like researchers in the gradually present my way, he emerged. Plus the information his father was newspaper reporter, newspaper writer, writer and her mom studied French literature and yes some in the family education and influence him to searching more what is truth and his personality is more like really like a researcher. He loves researching a lot.

6:45 Me too, me too. I love that your family also is artistic because many or curious in that way because my father is an engineer, my mother is an artist and I say I have both like I love the research, but then with the information I need to express. I need to. Express it and I feel like here his art is like that too. I like the materials he uses and I'm wondering like what makes him choose the wood and the colour?

7:29 Is there meaning behind that for him? Around my home there is a wood shop very close to from my home, so I could get very cheap paneer wood panel. So I love that I wanted to make art what around me actually in my daily life. So I started to use wood panel but gradually started to making historical painting and social problem painting. The hood panel has the hood layers. This layer is visibly very nice, but actually the layer is the time layer, so it it matches to what I wanted to express. It's very cool for people who might not have seen his art. You can see like wood grain coming through and it adds dimension to the art.

8:26 It adds for me emotion, right? I mean, some of the faces that you paint you cover, right? You have their faces not seen or so realistic. And I think that draws you into the story of your art, right? Because again, of your subject matters, you tackle tragedies in a lot of ways, right, Like the power plant accident and the comfort women and some of the other things. So I find you very brave to keep to that. Is it hard artistically to always portray that or do you feel that called to say that or the need to share those stories? There are many very famous Japanese artists made this kind of artwork historical problem or the social problem artwork. I don't need to express, but actually in my, in my view, not sufficient.

9:31 I needed to I needed to be a Japanese artist who express directory. What is Japanese war, what is Japanese war crime and what is the tragedy precisely regardless the beautiness. Actually I don't want to do that but because difficult to find so I feel I had to paint. I don't know what the word would be, but the like truthiness like in the world today, right? Like what is real or what is truth or what is easily influenced or manipulated. Again, what I like about your art is that it makes you confront a truth that people keep saying no to you use like black and white and red I'm assuming for reasons is there?

10:28 Does it mean something for you? Actually, I don't have so much time to painting. I have to go to the many places and so some color needed to very long hours to dry it and the black and white is not needed. So this is this is the one of the reason I choose the black and white, Yes, and red, red, red means because I started to about the what is Japan, what is Japanese, what is Japanese culture? It it is inevitable to not use lead because Japanese national flag is red, yeah. That's what I thought watch.

11:12 Like when I looked at it, that's what I thought I was like, oh, it's that very same bread to bring it together. So you have the ability to draw in when you do actually do your portraits. Like you have that series of portraits of women. I think it's when you were highlighting the comfort women as well as when the imagery with them being bit and whatever. Is there one that is easier to paint meaning like it less emotional or they they represent different things? The first thing to him Fukushima nuclear accident makes him like a trigger and So what Japanese government to do and when he saw what's happening there, they don't take any responsibility. After he drew about Fukushima then that connects with history and it goes to comfort woman and even the name comfort woman is quite bad title in in in simple way because it's a sexy slave. Actually watching deeply into Fukushima, I met a nuclear plant worker.

12:38 He told me that how how he started to work in Fukushima and as a decontaminated worker, he talked about dispatching systems, exploiting systems. This worked right after the Fukushima's accident very, very quickly after the after the explosion from somewhere came to Fukushima. Those who never never minded losing their life is the typical wanted to this kind of this kind of person and put to the very emergency nuclear power plant. So I it was very why this kind of system worked quickly searching or learning many things. Oh this structure is the false labor system committed during World War.

13:33 There is a guy outside of the area accidental area. This guy gather gather guys including homeless guy or those who have not so much money but wanted to much money you. If you come to Fukushima you get very big money in per day. But this is life. But being believing his story, many guys decided to come to Fukushima. But actually they could not start the light after that coming to Fukushima, these guys had to waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting. The office manager told them please waiting, please waiting many that time will come.

14:21 But describe these these guys as believing that they could get huge money so choose to stay in Fukushima using their money. And after that they started to lend money from these offices basing on this shocking that their labor condition getting worse and worse and worse and worse. This is the start of exploitation. This is the same to the first labor system. This is the first entrance I started to see the what Japanese society is during World War 20. This keeps living in different names after this was their first occasion.

15:13 Wow, it's like I I had learned a little bit like the game Korea for the horror, obviously of comfort women is that they would place ads for people to work, right? Like thinking it was a different job is right. Like they fooled you into becoming a sex slave, which is so horrific. So when I was learning about that, I was like, it's crazy to think like that happens, but it did. And so learning the hard parts of our humanity always a challenge. When I visited Busan and you showed us where the Japanese had leveled the town, Busan, all of Korea's beautiful and mountainous and alien, but there were parts where you let us be confronted by what war was. So I see, I get emotional in this part. So I am Jewish.

16:13 So for me, I very much identified with being leveled and erased. Great not wanted here being not like the same class of citizen from my grandparents and great grandparents stories that I heard how they escaped. My great grandfather was only one of nine children who got out. The rest of the family is gone. So when I see the world today being so easily confused, I'll use that word or misinformed. I wish we could all take time to sit in the things that are hard and not convenient.

16:54 So I think there is bravery in your art and in what you show because it's a piece of it. It doesn't mean that everything is awful, but because we love something, it doesn't mean that we can't know both sides, the good and the bad. That's I think part of humanity and I think a carrier art explores humanity. So I'm I'm glad that you are always sharing it it I think that's brave because again, if people don't know the Japanese, Korean history is complicated, A long occupation, right? They you couldn't speak Korean. They were trying to erase the language.

17:36 And yet you two met in two suits, very handsome people that work. So in your relationship and what you do, do you like how does the being Japanese and Korean come together or does it always come together? Actually Uki is not a little bit strange Korean actually actually. That's because we love her, that's why. Mine is a little different from the you know. The average? A little bit different. I'm afraid to go back to the hard story when I exhibited comfort room painting in Korea, an old guy who was a scholar in Korea.

18:30 If we could speak Japanese, We talk so much things. This guy asked me after watching my painting. Why there is the dark skinned Egyptian in your comfortable story? Why? It means that this guy did not know there was a big thing out of Korea, especially in Indonesia or Timor arrested. So it means that also Korean people tended to focus on the Korean and the Chinese female victims story through the public education. But I can understand as Korean focus on the Korean victims, this is natural.

19:14 But actually, as I told you in my basement, this problem spread very best in the Asia, Asia. So she knows that this kind of the a little bit different shaped in nationalism. You know, he recognized that need to to prevent this kind of the different type nationalism need to the watch the precise size of a precise shape of the problem. So in this meeting, a little bit different, she's different.

19:54 Thank you. But you are. You're striking. Meaning very, very pretty when we meet you, right when I met you. Look, he's smiling. He's like, yeah, she still is. She's mine. But what I liked is you showed so many sides when we were walking. Down by the water past the tree with all the spiders. But there was there was a house that I called the tree house because there's a tree growing through the middle. I have no sense of direction. So I usually have to find an object to be like that should be on my right. So I'm going the right direction. But we passed the industrial like the shops, but and that is how my father grew up, like when a plumber.

20:38 So like the smells were also familiar for me and seeing those shots, I don't know I'd, I felt like, so I was like, Oh, I, I know this right. So for me, like part of why I think I feel at home in Korea, even though I'm terrible at the language and it makes no sense, there are things there that speak to my heart good and bad, right? Like, oh, I know the feeling of I want my children to do better, right? Right. Like coming from, I think you were saying in Busan, they want their children to be educated and leave and it's leaving space. So are artists filling the space? Because if I was in Korea, I would be like, give me some of that.

21:22 I want that energy in and that, yeah, like what you see when you're in that place. What is that like now? What's going on there now? Getting worse. Is. It getting worse. No, no jobs. That is the biggest problem and the most biggest industry in Busan is a shipbuilding and trade. And we need a ship, we need to repair the ship. But as you know, the war with Russia and Ukraine and all things to stop and especially Yongdo, many ships from bloody bostocks, they come to here and buy second hand the ship or repairing.

22:13 But it's hard to keep the works and the place called Ursan, it has really big shipyard to there. So many workers are moved to there because they pay a lot stable. But in Yongdo is unstable and that the pay is lower than worse than. So you're getting worse and worse. And as you see the environment to there is not good literally bad condition there really old house. It has full many stories about modern Korean history like in 100 years. But the story in Korean expression study stories doesn't make you full.

23:01 We need the rice. That is the hardest part in Yongdo, especially full of the stories because that makes money. Pachinko, as you know, it's a really big, big issue in America and written in English 1st and translate into Korean because the writer is Korean American and the book start from Yondo my my place. But the problem is officers here, they don't know how to make money. That is another sad part. That's why I'm keep saying we need the sense.

23:42 Do you, Akira, do you think you can help bring the art scene there? Can artists like make a living there or help revitalize it a bit? There are many artists living in Yondo. Yeah, I think there is a possibility in Yondo. I think actually especially we are together, as together we can make something a little bit different from just only Japanese or just only Korea. I think there is a possibility, yeah. I think so too. Yeah, yeah, and full. Full of a contents actually. Yeah, there's so many contents in Yondo and other places, but it is a little bit very sad to see the inhabitant could not find understand the value of the places.

24:36 This is very sad. So sometimes people came from outside, started to nice business, minding their local history or the specific goodness in this area. It is very. Sad they could see the value. Yeah. Through young people, they could not see the potential of Yondo. It is very ironical that the number who get out from this area, those who born in this place, Yondo is the number one young generation go outside this island. Very sad.

25:20 And my friend told me we love to the local places or the older places, but say to me why you go to this kind of the poor places? Yeah, I'd want to let people show our lands poverty, but this is the regular younger people's feelings. Very sad. It is. It's pretty. I think in places I've lived, those parts of town is where artists go because they can afford it, right? And then it becomes popular because the artists are there, and then people buy it, and then they can't afford it anymore and it becomes like trendy or something else. But it's a mindset of some kind.

26:11 But I could feel walking through, there's just so much potential there, Yeah. Yeah, yeah, if I did not meet her, maybe I quit make artistic somethings in Japan because no chances, no reason but meeting her, she said said to me Akira, make somethings as outlook of the Japanese historical program. Here many Japanese people, there is a many good minded people and good minded artists, but because of not because of losing chances, they does not come to this way. But once I started to step into here, this kind of relation started to emerge and I'm very happy to some Korean artist has been supporting me and have exhibition collaborated with the Korean artist and try to watching the history precisely and try to the picking the common peoples suffering.

27:15 So even Japanese artists can't express in this right way. So I want to know I want to Japanese art leave person watching our activity, focusing on focusing on Japanese society. Actually the their imagination and the mind is pretty closed and limited the one step out to especially Korea perfect three different scene can make. I have many Japanese friends, but with a few words we could tell that they don't know about their own history, they never learned about their history, and we don't want money. We just want apologize and to know own history and face the country's history is really important to understand me and my society and it could happen to me again. But he was the first Japanese that with a few words, ah, this is Japanese know about their history and that makes me talk more and more.

28:40 And one of his picture is about 65 inch and all together 3 pieces and from far away looks like it's beautiful Japanese kimono. But when you look at the picture closely, it's about what they did in Japanese era and some soldiers breaking clocks and some soldiers killing people or experiment like human experiment or rape the girls. That picture touched me, like shocked me.

29:22 Oh wow. And with him, some part I noticed that I don't know about my history. I'm Korean and that makes me sometimes, oh, I know history with Japan, Japan and Korea. But when I see his artwork, I noticed I don't know I didn't know about my history. And some professors, they are 90 years old and he's keep searching about Maruta, which is human experiment in China.

30:04 Yeah. Even that one. Yeah. Makes me. I didn't know about what what was really happening there. Sometimes we fix our ideas that oh, I know about this, but actually not. We don't. Yeah. It's similar again in that growing up Jewish, I am told things that other people aren't told my whole life. This is our family's history, this is what we suffered. These are the things that were done. But I forget that the world isn't taught, that it's not pleasant, right?

30:46 So instead, like, I watch us become a scapegoat, right? Oh, you're awful. You're this, you're that. And watching history repeat itself is sometimes madding. But there's something about the way I think either, I think Israelis, they're a little different, like culturally, but the way they speak pisses people off. And so they can't hear the message. But when you're always defending, you get tired. What I love about art in both storytelling in with painting or sculpture, is you are sharing a perspective that maybe someone wouldn't go look for right, but then are drawn to and it will stir an emotion. And I hope that makes them curious, right? Like, let me know more what I what I would hope, because I can only see your work on a screen and I know it's much bigger. I do.

31:54 I get emotional about art because it it matters that voice matters and how it's shared will land different for each set of eyes. And I think that's why I dedicated like my podcast to talking to creative people because we interpret the world, we experience it maybe a little different, and we confront or express and reflect that which we have seen or felt back. I used to think I was helping people tap into their feelings, but now I hope I tap into curiosity. The world is full of feelings.

32:41 Yeah. You feel something, do something. Go. Go beyond the first sensation, Right? I think that's what your art does. You're sharing a history that is not publicized. So what are you working on? Like next? What comes next for you? I have to keep outlook related to Japanese and the Japan society. I want to make the painting about. During World War Two, there was official high class policies in Japan in Japanese. These policies force the people believe in the Japanese religion cult.

33:31 After the World War 2, this cult prohibited by GHQ, but people Japanese people does not even the name of this cult. Now they try to burn everything, but some document is survived and it become the three boxes. Reading through the reports made by these special policies, we can see what is Japanese society in the why, including me Japanese attitudes a little bit different other countries. We can see the Japanese cultural logic through this special policies document.

34:15 I want to make painting about this so the Tamar is still safe. Do you think they would like to display it in Japan too? Do you think they would? I'd be so curious. No, it's hard. It is hard even in Korea it. Is hard. I know you. He he was in Warsaw. Your work was right in the modern art in Warsaw. In Poland, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, many curator come from all over the world. I met and talked with and one of curators what the Varsha Mobar's curator, he said to be writing. You are the biggest artist finding the biggest finding in this year. And I want to have the exhibition in Paravalgia, but actually at that time was COVID-19. So he did.

35:11 We copied 1, not the real 1. OK, that's OK. That's OK. It still counts. Yeah, yeah. What I wanted to talk is the until the Christmas paintings in Japan, many people watching and communicated with me and supporting with me your museum or video people. But from I started to painting the comfort room, they never wanted to together with me. So at first I sent many mail to many people.

35:52 Let's have the exhibition in this time in Japan, this is very important. But no e-mail came back to me. No replies, no replies. I know that feeling. No reply. No. Replies No. Those people, I had the very mutual conversation we had in Kwanju, but actually the reflection is like this. It would also be hard, yes, to bring your art. I have a vision for you. Let's see if we can make this happen. But I think your art in a a home, right, like where it would the home is turned into a gallery. That would be amazing because then you're confronted with both what's safe and not, and then you confuse everyone with your delicious food so that you would have like this feast in a home.

36:44 You have to make this happen. I'm so excited. Like if I would, I would help. I would insult everyone with my English, but I would, I would I think that's amazing. Like with the with the white wall, the rich history of the tile and the outside color confronted with the red and black and white that you choose and then this food so all your senses see touch off. I'm I'm excited, I'm sweating. I want to make this happen for you. With the with the picture there. Yeah. It's OK, but usually our main food is the seafood. We really love seafood. I know. And imagine there is a really beautiful and nice seafood front of you. Fukushima.

37:32 Nuclear accidents. Yeah. Paintings. Can you eat? But that would be part of the art, right it? Becomes what's? That's why we need to protect our ocean. Something or you would have the food in the other room so they could go into denial. You have all the art. Then you walk into the room and it smells so good and they're like, oh, look what I can do. That's such a play on how we live. We see it, we ignore it, and then we're going to eat the yummy food. I think, oh, my God. I think that is a cool. Is that very important? I don't know. I'm very. I just started shouting. I'm so excited. I just, I want to make that happen.

38:14 I really want to make that happen. I know that. Do you both belong to the same church? Because I know your church is important, too. Yeah. So how does that faith come into your work as well to support you or encourage you? I would love to know. Yeah, definitely. He wasn't Christian. I wasn't Christian. And when I was 20 I became Christian the first met and after one year he sent me text. Can you dating with me? And I said no, just to be friends. But he's a smart guy. He knew it why I rejected. And I recommended him to read the book Mere Christianity, written by Cesar Lewis.

38:59 And yeah, in Tokyo. But you ordered on the Internet. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he ordered. And after he finished it, he said I think I need to read the Bible in person. And he bought the Bible, but he finished it in Tenmouth and he became Christian. We can tell he's real Christian or not and not the not the fake one. I understand. Yeah, and that makes us. I can live together. We engaged and marry and yeah, we go to same church every Sunday and we every day we share Bible, we praying before we go to bed.

39:47 Me too. Every Yeah, Really, really thankful. Yeah, that's how I end my day, with gratitude. Because the blessing actually praying could pray every day. Yeah, I think for me, I think I thank for the day and what I have and I ask to be better, a better person tomorrow. Like that's how I end my day. That's how I. Feel it The main point of my As I said, my artwork is very hard work. The main point is the repentance career. Confess. Confess.

40:30 Oh. Japanese people, he does not know about the confession. Comparing German government, how to deal with their war crime, they confessed their war crime. Of course, there is a problem in German too. But Japanese people does not know about the confession. So this is very important for Japanese. The Japanese people the mind mind about the about guilty or sin is completely different from the confession. Japanese people believe that there is no confession, there is no way to waiting time in the erasing waiting, erasing this after this erasing time, it is good person who does not about refer to the guilty anymore. But so Japanese public education, historical education, textbook, textbook reducing, reducing day by day, year by year.

41:38 So this is very dangerous of Japanese culture and the people around Japan. Why Japanese people move like this, You know, once apologize, but after that denying the involvement. So oh Japanese, what is the apologize We can understand this is the actually many Korean people's feeling against Japanese government attitude. So I think it is very hard to very bad things Japanese government committed precisely. But because there is the way of confession to start to to get reborn.

42:23 We need to there is just only way to confess for Japanese, I think, and I'm very happy to meet, meet, meet her and become Christian without become becoming Christianity. There is the impossible to understand techist in Hiroshima. In Hiroshima there is a monument in this monument there is a techist written like this. We never repeat this mistakes. Please rest in peace. But Japanese people cannot understand what is guilty. We Japanese did nothing guilty but once becoming a Christianity.

43:10 I can read this meaning and also why? Why? How Tenno and the Tenno family communicated with the GHQ and Americans. Do you know the meaning of the Tenno? Emperor. Emperor. Japanese Emperor. Emperor, and even now the Emperor's son goes to Great Britain and studied in the UKUK. This shows we can see that 10 no have to lead learn about that not Japanese culture including confession.

43:51 I think this is my opinion. But after this recognition we Japanese can understand our constitution. In the constitution, the 1st 1st chapter is about 10 no. And the 1st chapter say that Emperor is the Japan and the Japanese people symbol. And at first we could not understand, but learning about the Teno, Japanese people does not know about confession. But as the representative Teno went to many places just only apologizing. This is apologizing voyage he did.

44:34 This was, I think, his expression of the confession, but there is no people describing like this. So Christianity is very big for me. I like that, thank you for sharing that. Because it's personal, right? And as an American audience or culturally, not understanding how apology or a confession isn't part right of your culture. Interesting. When I meet European customers, I always say as Asian perspective, perspective, even you are not Christian, your culture, your country, history and culture based with Christianity on the Bible.

45:30 It means a lot. Like there is good and the bad and there is a good and the next justice, then law. There is a book law and justice but actually justice says first then law and the foundation is good. What is good? The Bible said God is good. So what is God? Bible says God is word. So we need to read and understand and praying to to understand and to follow the Goddess word in Korea, Korea period and Josan period in Korea.

46:18 In the Korea back then, the religion was Buddhism. So the the country's law base with the Buddhism, but Josan period was Confucianism. It's based with Confucianism but Europe and America is Bible so even you are not Christian. You said you are not Christian but think about your circumstance, environment, everything based with Christianity like human where is the word comes from?

46:58 Like in Buddhism base or chosen period base, if you show even me, think about me showing my face, bare face, how dare you? No way. And how dare you, you cut your hair right? So it means for a lot. Really a lot. I do. I also think American history is so short compared to Asia. You're right. Just I think part of me trying to educate myself is that I know so little. So I am willing to listen and watch, right?

47:42 And then try to understand as much as possible. I think my understanding of Japanese cultures, it has always been, I don't know the right word, pride, like proud. And there is what you see, and there must be a world inside that we never know inside the mind or heart, because what is accepted or not, right? Every culture has that. But as you were saying, what is that based on? I find learning more about it confusing because I thought it was so beautiful. I just thought it was also beautiful. How?

48:22 I don't know what a monoculture is like in America. There's so many people. My family very intermarried, right? So I always take a person as they appear and I want to get to know them and who they are and learn more. And when you when I was like travelling, I have not been to Japan or or China or anything, but like when I was in Korea, what part? What I partly liked was the monoculture in that there are rules in society that are standard. This is standard behavior. Do not be stupid. Like that's my right. But you know, honor your elders or this is your quiet here and it's a standard.

49:09 And even though maybe standards aren't always comfortable, they do bring you to a common space. And I, I wish there was a little bit more of that in the world, right? In Japan, usually Japanese cannot have the occasion to have conversation with Jewish or Muslim or Christian or black or many many type of non Japanese people to all, including Korea, this type of Korean. It is strange that in Japanese media, let's think about the present Korean society today is the representation is the Japanese top level Korean specialist university. But this guy is Japanese.

49:57 The Japanese and Japanese talk about the Korean society. The this is that no meaning. There is just only the Japanese, Japanese word. It is important to know our culture's people's talking, know our culture's people's logic to know. So this is a very important. So when I was in university, I tried to read the Bible, but I could not every time I stopped in in after the Egypt, you know, very tiny things wrapping up and making it bold with this size, using this materials, you know, these pieces, pieces, pieces, pieces, pieces. I could not but the experiencing Fukushima I had to know precisely these doctors write what they wrote and what they talk what is what is these differences. So even even very difficult to read through, but I had to read through their this their logic to understand. So Bible is like this.

51:17 Once I started to Bible I found that my image is completely different from actual Bible saying and also this this can apply to the story. At first I thought that this problem was limited to the Korean in China and N Koreans and Taiwan. But actual is completely different. So listen to the the the text or voices outside of me is very important. And this applied to also in ourself.

51:59 The the Japanese world is completely changed before World War 2 or 100 years ago and present. So without learning how to read Japanese, ancient Japanese, it is different, completely different culture. But we needed to this as a craft, not our culture, but our culture like this. I tend to put put writing words in my painting. So I think as artists, very interesting that many artists try to put artists themselves into the society limitation. But if there is need to express out of this social limitation, if we once express the out out of society, this society, how to react?

52:59 This is very interesting and Japanese people love to to calculate and the Japanese people love to together, but also outside of this together things is sometimes neat. When I talking with the Japanese, I noticed that geography is really important because Japanese island so I isolated so their history like have attack or became victim or attacked. It happens in Japan, not from outside of Japan but Korea is always connected with other countries. We never attack someone.

53:49 So need to see what is happening there. We are tiny country, small countries, so balance always need a balance. It's next to us, it's really big country there. So need to read what is happening there. But Japan never experienced about that. Even now, Japanese history doesn't tell connections with other countries. That's true. It's very insular, insular and echo They they get to be like I I get Edo like period, like different war, but all within the same country.

54:30 That's that's a good point, but I think again, that's what makes hit his art so relevant in that he is exposing and sharing that confession, that apology, like when someone's been hurt, if a person can apologize, at least acknowledge that was not good. Like you might not be able to find the right words, but it's a start and that can change. I think that can change the world, honestly. Like it doesn't feel good when you make a mistake, right? Whatever that is, and especially if you don't think it was. So I'm sometimes I wonder if that is like the mindset. So I like that something beautiful like an artwork can be the start.

55:27 And then what happens is up to everyone who sees it. I I love that. It is very exciting. You know, this is the Japanese society in this in this limited boxes my expression they don't they does not want to but needed to express. So outside of Japanese society, there is my my artwork. So if express this what's happened, watching this is very exciting, I think. Like one day he said can he apologize is a bit different with other country when they when we say sorry means we not gonna death again. But he said Japanese is more like when they say sorry means it became 0 so could do a game.

56:27 I love that. Well, that is great. For my last question of the interview. I love it, dude. Like if you came with a warning label, I want to know both of you because I think you're both fascinating. What would it be like? What would people need to know about you if they could? In a little box, he's like you go first. You go first. I think here is very funny. I like watching his eyes think I'm watching his. He's always thinking and I was like, oh, I wish I could speak Japanese because I could get so much more thoughtful. I see why you are both together. I could. See, he works. Very well, you don't have to be serious. You can joke. I'm funny sometimes. But like my warning label is, I will talk about Korea because I'm in love with Korea right now. So you know your warning label is. Curiosity, yeah, that is the most important thing for me. I think so too.

57:26 I want, I want to, I want to New Japan, lovely Japan, you know, basically would love New Japan. No, no need to summarize, mind. No need. No need. Summarize mind. No need to summarize. OK, Yeah, I like that. Are you in a gallery now? In Busan, will you? Or where do you want people to find your art online? Instagram. Instagram Follow Akira on Instagram. We'll have that. One, yeah. To see your work. I want to see Airbnb. Oh yeah, And if you want to visit Luzon, we'll have that too. Reach out and do.

58:06 And your food, I don't know if you give everyone those yummy food tours, but I will be back in 2020 eleven. I need a little more time to save some money, but I plan on being there longer next time. Thank you for being part of the Holly Hughes podcast. Thank you for joining me. I know it's very late at night by you it. Was really, really wonderful and yeah, we really honor to with you.