Zub Conquers All: Comic Book Writer, Artist and Director Jim Zub Talks Comic Books, Comic-Con, the Creative Process, Industry, Relationships, and His Impact on Conan the Barbarian, Marvel and More

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Welcome to the Holly Hughes
podcast.

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Today I am talking with it's the
Jim Zub, a Canadian writer,

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artist, art instructor, and for
me, the epitome of creative,

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collaborative and kind.
Those are all the three words I

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immediately think of when I
think of you, So I just wanted

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to share that straight off the
bat.

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Thank you.
That's really, really kind.

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I deeply, deeply appreciate it
and it is wonderful to see you

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and I think this is going to be
a lot of fun.

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Yeah, we're going to have lots
of fun.

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So I I I don't even know where
to start with you because there

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is so much.
First of all, again, thank you

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for coming.
You are very busy.

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You, you, I was looking at your
schedule in between.

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I can't imagine what your
production schedule is for

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writing and all of the comics
that you were doing.

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And then you are at like every
event in the next three months,

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like up and down the East Coast
of the US and like how, how are

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you doing all of this?
I yeah, it's weird like to give,

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I guess maybe your listeners a
bit of background.

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I'm yeah, I'm a mostly known as
a professional comic book

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writer, but I'm a yeah, I'm a
freelance writer now, but I've

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previously taught art, been an
artist and pop culture, you

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know, particularly in the comic
book space, whether it's the

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movies or video games or
everything related to it, are

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bigger than they've ever been.
So there's always a convention

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running some weekend.
The the hours are pretty wild.

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Like literally, you know, these
last couple days I've got for

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the Sprint before one of the
biggest pop culture shows in the

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world called San Diego Comic
Con.

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It's doesn't look.
It's still a dream of mine to

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go.
I'm I think I'm too chicken.

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I've been too chicken because I.
Think this is my 21st San Diego

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Comic Con, so it's like my
experiences at the show are now

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old enough to drink.
Wait, maybe, maybe I'll just

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meet you next year.
That would be like if I had a

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reason to go.
Yeah, it's a phenomenal

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experience.
It is a lot like if you haven't

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been to any convention before, I
wouldn't recommend it as your

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first go because it's it's a
lot.

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It's.
I've been to some local ones,

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I've been to some local ones and
they're very tiny.

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I think the introvert in me is
just going to be overwhelmed by

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the number of.
People saying if you don't do

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well with crowds of people, it
is probably too much.

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I'm now weirdly used to it.
So it's more of you have those

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moments where you can't believe
you're there or how insane it

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is, but then there's this weird
kind of Zen that washes over

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you.
We go here, we go again, you

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know?
And then I've got a Conan the

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Barbarian panels because I'm the
current saying it out loud is

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always like.
A weird I know I'm sweating for

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you.
I was like, that's.

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The current flagship writer of
Conan the Barbarian, which is

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amazing.
Tell me what that's like.

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I really want to dive into this
because you have like deadlines

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for that.
You are taking on something that

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has lived it forever.
And I was like reading some of

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the reviews on how they take the
old and the new.

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Yeah, Conan the Barbarian is
older than Superman.

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So he's he's just a, a core kind
of iconic property in pop

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culture in many ways, kind of
the bedrock of the sword and

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sorcery genre.
And I grew up reading those

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stories and reading those comics
and seeing the Arnold

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Schwarzenegger movie and all
that kind of stuff.

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But never in my wildest dreams
would I ever have imagined I get

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to contribute in any way
whatsoever to it, let alone be

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the person who currently has
their hand on the steering wheel

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of the franchise.
So although the character

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started in pulp prose, like in
short stories and then

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eventually longer novels, there
are more comic book stories of

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Conan the Barbarian than any
other medium that the characters

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appeared in.
So the way my boss, the guy who

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owns Conan, explains it, he
says, you know, you can do a

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movie like once a generation,
you can do a novel maybe once a

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year.
But every month, if the Conan

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comic is coming out and it's
strong, then that's the

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heartbeat of the franchise.
Then it is really setting the

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tone for everybody else.
Whatever analogy I want to use,

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we're the sharp tip of the spear
for the franchise and the

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material that we're putting
together.

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What that's adapting older
stories or creating newer

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stories really sets a tone for
everyone else who's making video

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games or trying to develop
movies or toys or any of that

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other stuff.
And so I take that

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responsibility very seriously.
But it's also a ton of fun

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because you get to, I'm a real
creative partner in terms of

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building out where our stories
are going to be now, but also

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years from now.
So I had an editorial meeting

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last week talking about the
panel we're going to do at San

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Diego and stuff we're going to
be announcing, but also talking

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about where the big narrative
arcs are going to be at the end

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of 2026 and moving into 2027.
And saying those numbers out

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loud sounds like science fiction
to me.

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Because, of course, growing up,
you know, the 2000s alone feels

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like the future.
And so being, yeah, knowing what

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I'm going to be doing in terms
of big writing pushes next year

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and the year beyond is, is a
very cool thing.

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And in comics, not something you
can take for granted like there

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used to be in the 70s and 80s in
particular, there were long runs

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where creators would stay on
books for years and years at a

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time.
And that was pretty much the

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standard.
But through the 2000s, I don't

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know if it's just attention
spans and everything else, it

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tends to get shorter and shorter
and shorter.

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So most of my peers when they
sign on to a book, they sign on

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for a six month contract, maybe
a 12 month contract.

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So me being on what's going to
end up being A5 year plus run on

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the book is highly unusual.
Wait, wait, step that ahead of

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time.
Yeah.

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You're gonna be 5 plus years.
Yeah.

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So I started on this particular
run in 2023 and I'll be on the

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book through 2027.
So it's ridiculous.

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You remind me of Steven Moffett
now.

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I I wish right so.
No, no, don't even it's.

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A really cool feeling to know
that we're going to be able to

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like.
So on 2023, because we were

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doing a big publishing relaunch,
the idea was I had a year to

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sort of prove that this could
work, that this plan that I put

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together would work.
And it launched really strong.

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Our numbers stayed really
stable.

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And so then it was just
negotiating and figuring it, OK,

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you're going to be the guy going
forward.

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The potential plan is now the
plan.

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How do we make sure that we get
everyone, you know, on board

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and, and our the artist that I
get to collaborate with my

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editor, everyone on the
marketing team, They're amazing.

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They're just such great people.
And because we launched at San

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Diego Comic Con in 2023 for this
new thing, every year it feels

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like a cool milestone.
I get to go back, I get to

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celebrate with my collaborators.
We get to sort of, you know,

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toast, have a beer, and in
another year we're doing it.

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I know, but like I want to take
it like can you absorb?

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Like you talk fast?
You clearly have talked to a lot

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of people.
You know what it's like to be on

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a panel, but like, I don't want
you to gloss over the massive

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accomplishments that you have
because your bookshelf behind

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you is all your.
Work well so we talked about

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this before we started recording
so yeah though if you're

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listening to audio it's not
going to be very useful to you

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but there's a a bookshelf just
here the thinner one on my.

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It's massive.
He's downplaying it.

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It's massive.
And and there's so I've written

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over 70 graphic novels and then
some of them have been, you

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know, plus short stories and
other things like that.

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So yeah, I've done I guess about
so so one of my friends, Dan

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Slot, he's done a huge runs on
spider Man.

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He got me into this mode where
we would to help yourself

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remember your sort of
productivity from year to year,

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You would count how many pages
of comics you've scripted in a

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year.
So then you can go, well, this

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year I was more productive than
last year, but I'm I like, you

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know, maybe it was higher
quality or maybe, you know,

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whatever things for it.
So I now have a running tally

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which is a weird thing to sort
of say, but I've written over

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9000 pages of comics which is
like kind of mind bending if I

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think about it of.
Course it is.

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And collaborated with dozens and
dozens of some of my favorite

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artists in the industry and many
people who have now become my

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friends.
And the social stuff I think is

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what I'm even more proud of
that, you know, in this Sprint

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up to San Diego Comic Con, I'm
getting dozens of messages from

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friends of mine in the industry
that are really looking forward

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to seeing me that, you know,
can't wait to to hang out

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together and want to know where
I'm going to be.

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Whatever, Thursday night, Friday
night, Saturday night, let's do

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stuff.
Let's have dinner, let's grab

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lunch.
Let's, you know, just celebrate

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another year of doing what we
love.

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And that to me is really kind of
the victory for me is that that

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the show's become a milestone.
You end up having almost like a

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like a convention circuit family
that you see over and over

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again.
And we're all getting older and

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hopefully getting wiser, or at
least we hide it better.

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Our our mistakes and we're
spending matter time and we're

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realizing how special, you know,
the time is that whatever

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people's kids are growing up and
careers are changing.

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But we're still here.
We're still doing the thing and

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getting to have these
experiences with each other, let

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alone meeting readers and
getting to have those

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conversations with them,
Hopefully taking them from being

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like mildly interested in your
stuff to deeply interested into

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your stuff to I'm going to buy
everything you do, you know,

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because they, they trust in the
work and they had a good

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experience meeting you.
That's why you do it.

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You know, that's why you go to
these events, let alone now

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getting to see new places.
The Conan book is in 11

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languages.
And so I'm getting more

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international invites than I've
ever had before.

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So just for example, we went to
England and Spain back in May.

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I've never been to Spain before,
went to Madrid.

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Three of the artists that I'm
working with are all in Spain.

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So they came to see me and we
did signings in these Spanish,

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you know, book shops.
And one of the artists was good

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friends with the bookstore owner
and he says we got to do, you

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know, signing at my buddy's
store.

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And I was like, sure, no
problem.

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And then one of the artist goes,
oh, you have to sign at this

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other shop.
And I was like, guys, I'm only

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going to be there for four days.
You can't do 2 signings in the

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same city, one of them's going
to suck like it's not going to

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work, and both of them were
absolute bangers.

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It was like, not Madrid, man.
That's not going to happen in

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Madrid at the.
Door it was bonk the first one

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was great and my wife and I left
and I said OK that's the good

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one Unfortunately the next one's
going to suck like no one's

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fault but it's just the way it's
going to go and and I sort of

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brace myself and we showed up
for the second one and it was

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crazier and I just went OK all.
Right.

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Was that one later at night?
No, well, they were both kind of

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evening ones, but one was like
the the Thursday and the other

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one was a Saturday.
So I think more people can show

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up for the weekend, obviously.
And it was just wild.

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And then after the second one,
the store owner had invited a

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whole bunch of other Spanish
creators and we all went out for

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a big feast.
And, and it was just awesome

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getting to meet people whose
work I knew through reputation,

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getting to see old friends who
had never seen on that side of

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the pond and just, yeah, kind of
just marinating in the culture

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there and, and enjoying, you
know.

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And so one of the things we're
trying to figure out now in 2026

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is, OK, what are the other
places we can go where they're

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00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,080
publishing the Conan book?
So I can kind of, you know, dual

224
00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,520
mode it like we get to have a
little bit of a vacation and see

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00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,880
somewhere new, but also I get to
promote the work and and

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00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:27,680
everybody wins.
I love that.

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00:11:27,680 --> 00:11:31,040
How big is your team?
Like how big is the Conan team

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00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:32,840
that makes this all happen?
Right.

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00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,960
So it's pretty, you know, it's,
it's different than than a lot

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00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:38,680
of other situations.
So I work directly for the

231
00:11:38,680 --> 00:11:41,720
rights holders of which is
unusual in terms of comic books.

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00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,600
Usually that's a licensing
division, but this is like a

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00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,160
just one office.
So there's, you know, kind of

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00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,320
the main owner, the main
accountant, there's two

235
00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,720
marketing people, there's an
editor and an assistant editor.

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00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:59,080
There's a like their social
media person, so that's just on

237
00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,000
the directly on the right side
of things.

238
00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,120
And then our comic book team is
there's sort of three different

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00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,240
groups of artists because
nowadays the expectations in

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00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,000
terms of artwork is quite a bit
more detailed than they used to

241
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,160
be in the 60s and 70s.
And so we have to work months in

242
00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:14,840
advance.
We couldn't just have one artist

243
00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,600
do every single monthly issue.
So there's three different art

244
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,840
teams that are rotating through
depending on the story.

245
00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:21,440
So I have to be written pretty
far ahead.

246
00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,160
And when they start referencing
each other's stuff, I have to

247
00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:25,920
make sure, OK, has that been
designed?

248
00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,840
I don't care which artist
designs it, but once it gets

249
00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,000
designed, it has to be
consistent across, you know, the

250
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,160
book.
If we have a new item or a new

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00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,720
place or a new character or
something that shows up in the

252
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story.
And then we also have what we

253
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,160
call these event books.
So every fall we do an extra

254
00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,200
kind of miniseries where we take
all the stuff that we've been

255
00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,200
building up for the year and
kind of pay it off.

256
00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,160
It's almost like the TV
equivalent of a season finale or

257
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,640
like a extra long episode or
whatever.

258
00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:54,800
And so we have a different art
team for that and we we build

259
00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,800
those out in advance.
And because the book is doing so

260
00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,760
well, Titan, who is our
publisher, their prose division

261
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,920
now wants to do tie in novels
based on the stories that I'm

262
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,520
building.
And so they need that

263
00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:09,920
information as far in advance as
possible because you can't just

264
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,440
tell a novelist I write pop out
a novel this month.

265
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,360
So we work together.
I've reached out out of the

266
00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:17,400
blue.
It's one of those like, cold

267
00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:19,520
call.
You really hope someone will

268
00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:21,440
respond, but you're like, oh,
they're going to think you're

269
00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:25,240
crazy or something.
I had read an essay that you put

270
00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,600
together about abuse in
Hollywood and the way that

271
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,400
people are treated, you know,
behind the scenes.

272
00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:35,320
And I was putting together a
supernatural story called, which

273
00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:36,640
eventually was called Glitter
Bomb.

274
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,720
And it is a Hollywood Horror
Story about a failed.

275
00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:43,080
There it is.
That's right, a failed sci-fi

276
00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:47,280
actress who is bitter and her
life is falling apart in Los

277
00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,040
Angeles.
And eventually she gets an offer

278
00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:54,680
from some eerie supernatural
being that ostensibly says, do

279
00:13:54,680 --> 00:13:56,680
you want revenge on all the
people that have destroyed your

280
00:13:56,680 --> 00:13:59,280
life?
You you know, I will give you

281
00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,680
the power to do it.
And it's it's a horror.

282
00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:07,160
It's a Hollywood Horror Story,
and I had done a series.

283
00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,840
Well, I was actively working on
a series called Wayward, and

284
00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,200
that was a supernatural story
with teenagers in Japan.

285
00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:16,520
And I had these essays in the
back of that book that that

286
00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,320
readers really liked because it
helped fill out the world and

287
00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,160
made it feel more real.
We were talking about Japanese

288
00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,360
mythology and living in Japan
and all these different

289
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,040
elements.
And I wanted Glitterbomb to have

290
00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,200
that same grounded sense of
reality.

291
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:34,080
So I did a ton of research on
LA, but I wanted to talk about

292
00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,440
sort of the, the shadowy
undercarriage of, of these

293
00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,560
productions.
And your essay that you'd

294
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,960
written was one of the best that
I had read about it.

295
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,240
It was concise and it was clear
and it was really sharp.

296
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,200
And so I asked you if I could
reprint it, if you owned the

297
00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,760
rights to it and if I can
reprint it in the back of the

298
00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,760
first issue.
And I sort of threw that it's

299
00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,440
the Internet.
And I thought they're not even

300
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,320
gonna respond or just.
Gonna it was Twitter.

301
00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:02,560
It was Twitter when?
I first approached you on OK.

302
00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:04,600
I couldn't remember if it was an
e-mail or if it was Twitter.

303
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,080
And I just out of the blue go,
hey, this is really great.

304
00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,360
Can I get in touch with you?
The halcyon days when people

305
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,040
felt like you could just do that
a decade ago and it wasn't.

306
00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,040
I'm still doing it.
That's how I'm talking to most

307
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,560
of my guests.
I'm like, hi, what's up?

308
00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,640
I'm a real person, I swear.
It's not a bot or some terrible

309
00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:23,400
spammy thing.
And I'm not trying to sell you

310
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,440
anything.
And we worked it out.

311
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,240
And then you, I believe said,
you know, I got a ton of

312
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,800
stories.
I don't mind doing more.

313
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,200
And that was such a huge weight
off my shoulders because what I

314
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,360
was worried about was what am I
going to put in issue 2?

315
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:36,480
What am I going to put in issue
3?

316
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:38,640
And I got to find a different
person for each one.

317
00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,720
That's, and it's supplementary
material.

318
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,880
It's important, but it's not the
production of the main art.

319
00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,840
And so it's like just finding
someone for each issue is going

320
00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:52,040
to be such a huge pain.
And I, and yours was so on

321
00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:53,720
target.
I was like, and the quality's

322
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:55,640
got to be maintained, you know,
across.

323
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:57,360
And then you said, I got tons of
stories.

324
00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,200
If you send the thing ahead of
time, I can write more.

325
00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,720
And I was like, well, that just
sounds like the best kind of

326
00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:05,680
situation.
And so we worked together on

327
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,600
that series and it was, it was
amazing.

328
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:10,160
I had such a great time putting
it together.

329
00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:11,640
I'm super proud of it to this
day.

330
00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:16,720
And it's fascinating how years
later, you know, it feels like

331
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,560
the social media and everyone
kind of caught up that the Me

332
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,480
Too movement that spilled out
years later.

333
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,800
I'm not we had no part to play
in that whatsoever.

334
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,320
But it was already brimming.
It was already there under the

335
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:29,840
surface.
It still is.

336
00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:31,640
I think that's the irony of
Hollywood.

337
00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,800
I'm like, it's it's definitely a
thing which made working with

338
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,280
you amazing.
So I remember that you sent me

339
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,240
that you're like, hey, I read
that essay.

340
00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:41,280
I was like, yeah, sure.
Why not?

341
00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,000
Like I I'm not even I'm what's
it's X now.

342
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,800
I just deleted my account
shortly after because it became

343
00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,680
a cesspool and I was like, I
can't deal with that negativity,

344
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,600
so I'll just go somewhere else.
But we connected.

345
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,240
Working with you was as a writer
and a creative person.

346
00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:01,120
You hold so much space for
people's talent.

347
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,160
And that's when I really got
into comics.

348
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,079
I was like, well, what is this
when he's letters and what does

349
00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:06,560
that mean?
And like, I was like, I was

350
00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,520
like, this is delicious.
And then even locally, people

351
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,440
like you worked on Glitterbug.
Will you come here?

352
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,079
I'm like, I'll come here.
But I got like, I am not part of

353
00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:17,480
that, but I'm happy to promote
anything.

354
00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,520
The person who threw me on the
table, right?

355
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:25,640
I got a, a random message on
social media saying I am

356
00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,360
George's daughter.
I hope I can reach out to you.

357
00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:31,520
And then I was like, oh boy,
weird, right?

358
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,160
I was like, oh, wait, I, so you
can't see me if you're not

359
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,600
watching the video, but like,
I'm wiggling because sure.

360
00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:39,400
I was like, Oh my God, he has a
daughter.

361
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,880
I originally wrote the essay
because I also have a daughter

362
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,600
and I wanted to teach her that
her mom knows how to fight back,

363
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:47,280
right?
That you can speak up when

364
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:52,200
something bad happens to you.
And anyway, I, she was like, I

365
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,680
just, you know, wanted to reach
out and let you know Karma got

366
00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:01,480
him.
She said, I don't really want to

367
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,440
go into it because it's really,
it's personal.

368
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:07,600
But basically she was like, I
hope it's OK.

369
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,960
I live this life.
He went through XY and Z Karma

370
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:12,960
got him.
He's broke, he's miserable and

371
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,520
unhappy.
I'm living my best life and I

372
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,000
love that.
Like basically said, thank you

373
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,280
for writing it and being cool
and whatever.

374
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:25,480
And I corresponded with her a
little bit and she has a super

375
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,200
cool life.
And I, I wanted to be mindful

376
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:30,720
because I've got daddy issues,
right?

377
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,320
I was like, I appreciate that
you found me, right?

378
00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:37,400
Because I'm, I'm not the biggest
creator out there in the world,

379
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,080
but I was just like, I
appreciate that you did that,

380
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:41,600
that your message meant
something.

381
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:46,400
And I hope that you, and really
I sincerely mean it, that you

382
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,240
are well and that you're
grounded and you're surrounded

383
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,440
by people who love and will
protect you.

384
00:18:52,120 --> 00:18:53,840
And she's like, yeah, no, man,
I'm good.

385
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:55,680
I got the best deal out of all
of it.

386
00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:58,480
And he, she's like, none of his
kids are talking to him.

387
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:02,520
I was like, wow, wow.
I, I try and explain to people

388
00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,120
when they're getting into
whatever the creative arts, you

389
00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:07,720
know, and it's true across
almost all mediums.

390
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:12,040
So whether it's comic books or
prose publishing or or movies or

391
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,280
television or video games or
tabletop games or any of these

392
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,400
kind of creative fields, like
treat other people the way that

393
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,320
you want to be treated.
Treat them better if you can,

394
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:25,080
you know, remember what it's
like when you're starting out.

395
00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,040
Remember those fears and
remember those, you know, those

396
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:32,160
ego checks and those things
because you are not wherever

397
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,800
you're at in your career,
whatever success or failure

398
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:40,520
you're going to have, you know,
your ability to treat others

399
00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,280
well is going to help chart the
future of that thing.

400
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:48,080
And it's going to that's the
real honest legacy that lasts.

401
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,960
And it lasts longer than our
lives, ideally.

402
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:55,240
You know, if people Remember Me
when I'm gone and they say, oh,

403
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,200
Jim wrote great stories or
whatever and was a really good

404
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,600
dude, you know, like, and was
always fun to meet with and

405
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:06,600
always looking out for other
people or, or excited about, you

406
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,080
know, art and stories and trying
to get other people excited too

407
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,040
and engage with it.
That's the best, you know, you

408
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,200
can kind of hope for rather
than.

409
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,040
The minute your name comes up
and the nose kind of wrinkles

410
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,160
and you're just like, at best
people are kind of holding in a

411
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:27,040
bad story or a bad experience or
what may have you like I yeah, I

412
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:29,600
know, but.
I think that sets you apart like

413
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,800
right, Because like I would
still work with a lot of great.

414
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,240
I I I get that like I think I
think all of us who are creative

415
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,920
have like these wounds, right?
We have this whatever our

416
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,400
creative move, right, But you
don't have to lead with it.

417
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:44,040
You don't have to like lead with
that.

418
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:47,040
I think for me I've.
Got frustrations, you know,

419
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,720
galore and, and it's not like
I'm living some idyllic life

420
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,480
where everything goes my way or,
you know, I don't want people to

421
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:55,600
get their own idea.
It's like the power of

422
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,160
positivity.
And therefore you will never

423
00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,040
have problems because that's
certainly not the case.

424
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,240
The more people you work with,
the bigger the properties you're

425
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,480
working on, the more companies
you're involved with.

426
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:06,880
But at the end of the day, these
are people too.

427
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,200
Like people are saying, oh, do
you prefer working for Marvel or

428
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,280
DC or, or, or whatever?
And you're like, actually, I,

429
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,680
it's not like there's a guy
called Mr. Marvel and I work

430
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,600
for, for them.
These are different people on

431
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,680
different creative teams, you
know, and sometimes it's not

432
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,600
only am I working with that
editor, but this year that

433
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:26,400
editor, whatever, they had a
baby.

434
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,840
And so their lives and the way
that we interact is going to be

435
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,960
different than the year before
or the year after.

436
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:35,800
And we're all people.
And our ability to, I put it in

437
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,920
this term, I say our job is to
communicate and to entertain.

438
00:21:40,360 --> 00:21:43,240
And the first people we have to
communicate with well and make

439
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:44,960
sure they're engaged and
entertained are our

440
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,800
collaborators, that they know
why we're doing something, that

441
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:49,400
they're excited and on board
with it.

442
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:53,360
And if not, why not?
So I don't want people to just

443
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,520
whatever, work on my script
because I'm the writer.

444
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,240
I want them to read the script
and be excited to draw it, you

445
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,640
know, or to see it produced and
published and marketed.

446
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,480
So if people have questions,
it's not just like that

447
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,880
perfunctory thing of does anyone
have any questions?

448
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,960
It's seriously, I want you all
to know why this thing's going

449
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,120
to be exciting and what's going
to be so cool about it.

450
00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:17,400
So when any of us is talking
about it, we're excited for the

451
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,720
right reasons and we're pumped
to see what's coming out.

452
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,080
And when a new piece of artwork
comes in, let's share it all

453
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:25,280
around and get pumped because we
all get to have our names on

454
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,600
this thing, you know?
And I felt that way with Claire

455
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,640
Bond, that you were part of the
team and you should be excited

456
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,880
even if you didn't.
You're not a horror writer and

457
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,160
you're not a comic book person,
but we brought you into this for

458
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,120
the time that we were building
this all together.

459
00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:42,360
And you should be as proud as
anyone else to hold that book up

460
00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:44,360
and say, I have a small piece of
this.

461
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,080
That's really.
What it's all about, you know,

462
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,880
And there's a lot of talk.
I think you see the superhero

463
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,680
movies and at the very end of
the film, if you stick around

464
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,680
for the credits, there's a
little special thanks section.

465
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,360
And those are all the comic book
creators after the people who

466
00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:03,000
did the catering and after the
people who drove everyone

467
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,200
around.
There's a little tiny paragraph

468
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,800
of the the the craters whose
blood, sweat and tears actually

469
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:10,680
built the storylines that
they're adapting.

470
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,560
And I wish every one of those
people was treated by the

471
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,280
publishers, you know, by these
now massive entertainment

472
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:24,320
conglomerates the way that they
deserve because their creativity

473
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:28,840
has made these billion dollar
properties, you know, and, and

474
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,760
they feel any sort of
acknowledgement, like if you

475
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,600
hang out with them, like
literally the people I, you

476
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,280
know, I had breakfast with the
guy who made Thanos, you know,

477
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,920
the big villain from the.
Avengers yeah, of course I'm

478
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,200
wait wait, you should know I'm
part nerd so like don't you

479
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,360
don't like I'm there it's.
Also for your listener.

480
00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:49,000
I'm like, should I turn around
and show you my Funko Pop

481
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,280
collection like it's all over
there so.

482
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:56,080
But it's like, and that guy's
the nicest, most humblest dude.

483
00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,360
And when, you know, he gets
acknowledged at all, he feels

484
00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:03,360
that that surge of, of pride for
the work.

485
00:24:03,360 --> 00:24:06,360
And you're like, you should be
very wealthy, you know what I

486
00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:08,240
mean?
Like you should be the whatever,

487
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,960
the guy who created The Winter
Soldier, you know, and all these

488
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:15,800
other people that that the vast
majority of them, when they are

489
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,760
thrilled to meet fans, they're
thrilled to know that they've

490
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,080
contributed to the sort of pop
culture landscape.

491
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,720
And that is cool, but you also
don't want to be taken advantage

492
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:27,040
of, you know, So it's that.
Weird.

493
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,320
Let's dive into that.
How does how do you own

494
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,160
something like royalties?
Like how does it work?

495
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,080
Like you create a character,
right?

496
00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:38,960
So like, I know how it works in
film and well, how it used to

497
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,040
work in film and TV, I don't
know anymore, but.

498
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:43,520
With streaming and stuff, it's
messy.

499
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,640
That's that's.
That's what I'm saying, right?

500
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,840
So like if you create something
now, like I even think about

501
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,440
this with your Conan work.
I was asking like, so you have

502
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,000
have the legacy and then where
you want to take it.

503
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,520
How old is Conan at this point?
Like how old do we always keep

504
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,680
in?
1932.

505
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,920
I mean how old is the character?
Like literally age like I'm.

506
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:06,960
Oh, sorry.
So there's different eras of the

507
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:08,240
character.
That's what's interesting.

508
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,160
So the character in his youth,
he's in his sort of 20s and he's

509
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,280
running around as a as a
troublemaking thief.

510
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,040
Then he's in his prime where
he's leading armies.

511
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,080
And then there's Conan the King.
So then there's he's older and

512
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,440
he's the king of Acqualonia,
this, you know, fictional

513
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,960
country and he's, you know, into
his old age and, and what may

514
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:31,000
have you, he creates his legacy
as as a king and eventually the

515
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:32,960
entire world goes through a
cataclysm.

516
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,560
Multiple things, you know, the
and until we get to our modern

517
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,080
history and all that stuff has
been lost to the sands of time

518
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,280
and things like that.
And so you can actually do

519
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,360
stories at different periods of
Conan's life.

520
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,440
So I've written stories when
he's young troublemaker, I've

521
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:48,920
written stories where he's in
his prime.

522
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,760
And I'm actually writing my
first King Conan story right now

523
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:53,800
that's going to be coming out
in, well, I've written it, but

524
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:55,280
it's going to be coming out in
October.

525
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,720
And so it's fun because the
character has this entire legacy

526
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,200
and you can sort of drop in at
different points of his life

527
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,520
and, and focus on different
aspects of the adventure.

528
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:10,160
And whether he is headstrong
and, and, you know, pushing up

529
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,480
against the edges of
civilization or he's sort of

530
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,800
becoming embittered or he's this
king who realizes he has to sort

531
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,760
of pull his head out of the muck
and lead others and try and, you

532
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,840
know, keep humanity alive when
they're up against all these

533
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,960
threats from all these sides.
That's, that's what's fun about

534
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,840
the character is he's got this
kind of fully fleshed out career

535
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,920
that you can then work within.
And so there are the original

536
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:41,320
Canon stories written by Robert
E Howard, this Texan author who

537
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:47,160
had an incredible, he died in
his, you know, 30s.

538
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,600
And he was like had written
hundreds of short stories and

539
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,880
hundreds of poems, and only 22
of them are Conan stories.

540
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,000
He actually wrote more boxing
stories and Western stories, but

541
00:26:58,000 --> 00:26:59,440
that wasn't what he became
famous for.

542
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,840
What he became famous for was
this particular character.

543
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,720
And so our ability to use
anything for me of those stories

544
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,560
is, is open because we have the
entire kind of whatever you call

545
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,280
the Robert Harrod character
library.

546
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,240
And so sometimes I'll do
connection points between other

547
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,280
supernatural stories that he
made to try and entice people to

548
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,000
read his horror work or
detective work or other things

549
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,960
that he's done.
But if I create something brand

550
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,920
new, I have, I am the creator of
that.

551
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:29,920
That's just the credit.
You can't take that away.

552
00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:32,960
And there's a small financial
incentive if it gets turned into

553
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,880
other media.
And then for the work that I've

554
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,280
written in terms of publishing,
when that's published in, in

555
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,760
other, you know, collections or
in other languages, then I get

556
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,920
a, a royalty on that stuff as it
continues to sell for as long as

557
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,360
it continues to sell.
And so, you know, with enough

558
00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:54,040
body of work, if it's popular
enough over a longer span of

559
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,840
time, it's a, a form of passive
income.

560
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,160
You know, obviously it's not
going to be on the level of a

561
00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:03,520
whatever a Stephen King or
something like that.

562
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,440
But it still has that kind of
heft in terms of what you'll now

563
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,480
always be associated with Conan
the Barbarian if you do a long

564
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,920
run on that thing.
Just like I did a run on The

565
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,160
Avengers and now everyone knows
who The Avengers are.

566
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,360
And so when I get invited to a
convention, usually after my

567
00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:22,160
name, they put either The
Avengers or Conan the Barbarian

568
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,440
or Dungeons and Dragons or
potentially all three.

569
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:26,920
Those are sort of the three
biggest credits of things that

570
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:28,800
I've worked on.
Like I was writing The Avengers

571
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:33,320
when Infinity War came out and
you know that whatever 6 month

572
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,400
period leading up to in the
launch of that movie, I have no

573
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,840
role in that film.
I have no credit in that film.

574
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,360
I just happen to be the current
writer of The Avengers.

575
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,360
But it's like, I'm here in
Canada and I did every major

576
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,320
Canadian news outlet, every
newspaper radio, because they're

577
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,600
like, oh, the writer of The
Avengers is Canadian and it's

578
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:53,920
the biggest media property in
the world.

579
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,920
And you're like, sure.
And they go, have you met Robert

580
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:57,920
Downey junior?
And you say, no, you know, like

581
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:02,240
this is not I'm we're in a
different, different division,

582
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,880
you know, like I'm in the
publishing division and they're

583
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,800
overdoing the Hollywood stuff,
you know, but but even just

584
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,400
having that kind of a notoriety
bump obviously has been, you

585
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,680
know, massive in terms of that.
And so with the creator own

586
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,840
stuff, it all depends on what
deal you signed with the

587
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,240
publisher.
So Image Comics has done the

588
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,120
majority of my creator own work,
you know, Glitter Bomb, another

589
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,400
book called Wayward I mentioned
before, and then another book

590
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,400
called Skull Kickers that I did,
which was sort of my breakout

591
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,280
book that was kind of 2010.
And it's a action comedy, sword

592
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,960
and sorcery title.
But these two mercenary monster

593
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:36,360
hunters who get themselves in
trouble.

594
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:41,080
And I own that with the artist.
We own it together.

595
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,800
And so if we ever do any media
adaptation movies or you know,

596
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,480
we've been optioned a few times,
which you know what it is.

597
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,240
But for anyone listening here,
it's like if you've created a

598
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,200
thing, a movie company might
say, we're interested and we're

599
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,720
going to try and put all the
pieces together, a producer, a

600
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,000
director, budget, a big actor or
whoever.

601
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,560
And so we don't want you to sell
it to anyone else.

602
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,720
So we'll put a little our thumb
on it and give you a little bit

603
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,720
of money.
And that means, you know, it's

604
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,760
ours if we want it within this
period of time, one year, 2

605
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:11,680
years, whatever.
And we have the right to

606
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,840
continually roll that over and
continue to pay you a little bit

607
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:20,360
of money every year on an option
for us to make a a full blown

608
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,080
adaptation and then pay you a
larger chunk of money, which

609
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,600
usually comes with whatever
executive producer credit and

610
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,080
involvement.
And sometimes you get to be in

611
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,160
the writing room and sometimes
you get to be involved in

612
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,600
casting, and other times you
just take your money and walk.

613
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,080
You get nothing, you get a big
zero, you get your, you get an

614
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,720
EP credit.
You have to negotiate your deal

615
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,760
well, so you always get paid in
perpetuity for every medium.

616
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,760
None.
Yeah, there are really bad media

617
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,560
deals where you can sign one
where you literally go, OK, the

618
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:49,080
option money is all you're going
to get.

619
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,560
And then they tell you, oh,
you're going to get a percentage

620
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,720
of profits.
But the term Hollywood

621
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,520
accounting, of course, is where
they're able to tell you that

622
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,240
every single expense that that
studio has ever incurred

623
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,680
suddenly is is weighing on your
film.

624
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:03,880
Yes.
So you never go against net.

625
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:05,040
It's gross.
It's gross.

626
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,840
You see that box over it made
$100 million, but it cost me

627
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:12,280
17,000,500 bajillion to put a
stamp on that letter.

628
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,600
No, no, funny man.
Like I tell people that all the

629
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:15,840
time.
Yeah.

630
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,680
So I've got representation for
my media stuff and the the group

631
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,200
that we work with, they're
they're literally like whatever

632
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:26,240
the upfront payments are,
whatever is guaranteed, those

633
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,920
are the things you can count on.
Everything else is just vapor.

634
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,640
You know, you've got to be
really careful about how you

635
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,480
negotiate that and that you have
exit clauses that they don't own

636
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:40,080
it in perpetuity or that they're
not able to do adaptations or do

637
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,840
sequels or do more with it.
That you have no control over

638
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:44,360
that.
Literally, even though you're

639
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,840
the creator, some clause in that
contract says that they can

640
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:49,680
basically make decisions without
you.

641
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,200
It's.
Brutal.

642
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,200
Yeah, so you've got to have
lawyers to look all this stuff

643
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,040
over.
And I've always treated the

644
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,320
media stuff and the adaptation
stuff as like, that's a bonus if

645
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,080
it happens.
But you can't make.

646
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:03,760
I don't make a comic to try and
make a movie.

647
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,640
If I wanted to make a movie, I'd
pitch a movie.

648
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,160
You know, I love making comics.
I love working and publishing.

649
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,000
I love collaborating with
artists and all that stuff.

650
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,440
So that's where my head's at.
That's what I'm focused on.

651
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,960
If someone comes to me and they
see whatever, I think Skull

652
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,040
Kickers will make a great adult
animated show.

653
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,880
You're like, cool man.
I think it can adapt so well.

654
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,320
Like, you know, I I watch a lot
of Asian shows, like I watch

655
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:26,600
Vicki, like I don't know if you
know Vicki.

656
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,840
So I'm like all of that and they
have their own anime and their

657
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,760
own whatever.
I was like, I think that fits

658
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,080
real well.
But I was like, it's your baby.

659
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,680
I'm sure you've been approached,
but I'm I'm just like.

660
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,200
Multiple times on on glitter
bomb, we've been optioned on

661
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,400
wayward and on Skull kickers.
And the first few times it

662
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,480
happens, you definitely have
that moment of, oh, this is the

663
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,600
life changing.
This is everything here we go.

664
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,760
And then you realize first of
all, Hollywood moves very slow

665
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,480
and then all at once and then
nothing, you know, so we would

666
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,760
have these crazy meetings or
you'd be on calls with people.

667
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,560
And one of the reasons why I got
representation was literally

668
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,280
because I would have what I
thought were these life changing

669
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:07,640
calls.
And they were people who

670
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,840
couldn't make those decisions,
but they would lie to you and

671
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,960
tell you that they could.
And so I needed someone to be a

672
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,920
filter to go, is this for real?
Do these people have any power

673
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:18,880
control?
Is this company for real?

674
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,440
Their website looks good, but
anyone could put together a

675
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,840
website.
And so having this filter now

676
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,840
where they're like, first of
all, there's the legitimacy of

677
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,080
someone else negotiating and
making sure it's worth your

678
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:31,200
time.
Yes, you're going to pay a

679
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,640
percentage for that, but it's
sort of worth its own weight.

680
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,120
And second of all, when they
finally get to the point where

681
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,760
you're in the call, everyone is
now committed.

682
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,280
All the people that have gone
through those filters are like,

683
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:42,880
all right, now it's worth Jim's
time.

684
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,040
Let's get in on this thing.
So I had a call a couple weeks

685
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,040
ago and it's one of the better
ones we've had in a while.

686
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,320
And you're like, cool, you cross
your fingers.

687
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:56,800
But my job is to make stories
and to and to write and to make

688
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,680
comic books.
Their job is, in some cases, on

689
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,680
those executive levels to have
meetings about meetings about

690
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,720
maybe making something someday.
So when they're having meetings,

691
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,159
they're getting their salary.
And when I'm having meetings,

692
00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:09,800
I'm not, because I'm not
writing.

693
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,320
Oh, I love that you're so
grounded for a creative person.

694
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,520
You're like insanely grounded.
I don't know if that's part

695
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,800
Stacy.
You and Stacy have magic

696
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,280
together.
Yeah, I mean, we absolutely do.

697
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,600
And she's been really good about
that, that thing of, you know,

698
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,199
remembering who you are and
knowing what, what actually

699
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:30,000
matters.
You know, I, I went to, I got

700
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:31,679
invited to a convention in
India.

701
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:36,120
So I went to Mumbai Comic Con
and it was one of the craziest

702
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,760
experiences of my life.
I was one of only two

703
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,920
international comic book guests
and they don't get a lot of

704
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,120
guests and the crowds are
massive.

705
00:34:44,199 --> 00:34:48,120
And there were people there who
were specific fans of my books,

706
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,000
but there was a wider sense of
you work for Marvel there for

707
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,239
everything Marvel related.
We're just going to shower you

708
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:57,560
with love.
And that's very exciting to feel

709
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,120
like a celebrity in the midst of
that.

710
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,000
But they don't really know who
you are.

711
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,040
And so you kind of got to you're
being put up in this insane

712
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,600
hotel and I had whatever, you
know, first class flight and all

713
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,160
this kind of stuff, which I
don't get very often.

714
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,200
And so you feel really cool in
the midst of it, but there's

715
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,840
this weird artificial bubble.
Love it, ain't you, baby?

716
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,680
Like, it's these broader kind of
pop culture waves.

717
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,560
Enjoy this, have fun with it,
make those inroads, you know,

718
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:28,160
and the press junket stuff, like
I had done, I'll do press at San

719
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:29,800
Diego.
And it's usually with nerd

720
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:31,360
outlets, you know, and things
like that.

721
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:35,000
Every so often, some slightly,
you know, yet last year was the

722
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:36,840
50th anniversary of Dungeons and
Dragons.

723
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,720
So like, we got an interview by
Time and by New York Times and

724
00:35:40,720 --> 00:35:44,000
stuff like that about D&D is a
cultural movement, you know what

725
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,120
I mean?
But again, it ain't you.

726
00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:47,760
That's Dungeons and Dragons,
correct?

727
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,560
But did Stranger Things also pop
it the DND?

728
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,280
Like did that also, yeah.
It's Stranger Things.

729
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:55,840
Do you know what Critical Role
is?

730
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,520
Yeah.
So there's a, yeah, a series of

731
00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:59,760
these voice actors who played
Dungeons and Dragons, and

732
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,040
they're now massive pop culture
kind of influencers.

733
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,320
So I'm in Mumbai, and they do
this press thing.

734
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,680
They say we're going to do these
media, you know, interviews.

735
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,480
But it's like Associated Press
India.

736
00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:14,480
And it's like the biggest
newspaper in Mumbai.

737
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,320
And it's like the biggest radio
station in Mumbai that has

738
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:19,960
millions of listeners.
And they're like, we want to

739
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,080
talk to you about superheroes.
And you're like, OK, like this

740
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:28,680
is a different level, but it's
just this one singular moment

741
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,240
and then it's going to go away.
And that's that.

742
00:36:31,240 --> 00:36:35,200
Like, it's not it's cool.
It's an amazing adventure.

743
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,960
I'm so glad I did it.
I'm so glad I got invited.

744
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,720
I'm so glad it went well.
The the promoters were super

745
00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:43,000
happy.
And they asked me if I want to

746
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,080
do another one, you know, next
year or in years to come.

747
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,760
Awesome.
But it but it's not you.

748
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,640
It's not mine.
I don't own The Avengers.

749
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,200
I don't own Conan the Barbarian,
whatever.

750
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:59,000
I'm the steward of this thing
for the time that I'm creating

751
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,000
that story.
And at some point you, you hand

752
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,240
it on to the next people and you
need to do that as magnanimously

753
00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:08,240
and you know as possible because
that's.

754
00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:10,880
I'm like imagining you with
like, I don't know why, but I'm

755
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,120
imagining you right now with the
big Thanos, you know, with the

756
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:16,880
like.
So do you have anything like

757
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,280
that?
Like you are in the world?

758
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,960
Do you have memorabilia that you
love that you have in your home

759
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:23,720
and stuff?
Or is it like, I'm there all the

760
00:37:23,720 --> 00:37:24,480
time?
Yeah, yeah.

761
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,680
You know, it's weird, like the
first few years you go to the

762
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:28,760
convention circuit, you're
buying all kinds of things.

763
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,240
You see some collectible, some
limited edition, and you're

764
00:37:31,240 --> 00:37:34,400
like, Oh my God, you know that
they've, they've primed you well

765
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,520
to sell you these things, you
know, But now I'm doing

766
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,320
whatever, 15 to 20 conventions
this year, which is bonkers.

767
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:47,000
And so you try not to fall into
that, like, so for example, this

768
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,960
is good.
So I bought this is Conan #1

769
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,320
from 1970.
It's the first Conan comic.

770
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,360
I didn't have a copy of it
growing up.

771
00:37:55,720 --> 00:37:58,320
It's a, you know, quite a rare
collectible or whatever may have

772
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,160
you.
And I was at a convention in

773
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:04,360
Orlando, FL and I've always
wanted one and I saw one for a

774
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:06,520
pretty good price.
And we started chatting, me and

775
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,800
the the retailer who was there.
And all of a sudden, he glances

776
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,720
down at my badge, and he says,
wait, you're the Conan guy?

777
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,120
And I said, yeah.
And he goes, I'm bringing like,

778
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,640
a box of books for you to sign
from my customers tomorrow.

779
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,240
And I said, well, if you got
them here, I'll do them right

780
00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:21,880
now.
So we just keep talking about

781
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,680
Conan for about 20 minutes.
I sign all these books that he's

782
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,080
got for his customers, which is
very, you know, it's fun.

783
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:29,800
And then he looks and he goes, I
don't know why you don't have

784
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:31,600
one of those.
I said, well, they don't give

785
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,320
you 1 when you take over Conan.
It's not like they have a box of

786
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,080
them in the back and they just
send you one.

787
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,040
It's pretty rare, you know, to
get one in good condition or

788
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:40,720
whatever.
And he's like, you need this.

789
00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:42,600
And I said, well, I think so
too.

790
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,880
And so he cut me a deal like 50%
off and he sold me the thing

791
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,080
because to him it was the
bragging rights of I sold it to

792
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,600
the Conan guy and I sold, you
know, sign this books or

793
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:52,600
whatever.
So there's occasional, you know,

794
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,080
things I will buy.
It's not that I'm completely

795
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,720
inoculated to the pop
cultureness of it all, but I

796
00:38:58,720 --> 00:39:00,560
definitely buy a lot less than I
used to.

797
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,920
I buy one of the things I love
doing is if the artist I'm

798
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:05,680
working with have original
artwork.

799
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,120
So sometimes people work
digitally so there's no

800
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,280
originals, but if there's
original artwork, if they've

801
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:15,080
worked pen and paper, I I try
and buy a couple pages or

802
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:16,680
sometimes the artist will gift
me pages.

803
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:20,280
So I've got like 6 pages from
Glitterbomb for example, that I

804
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,200
bought from Gibrell because
they're so awesome.

805
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,960
Yeah, he's amazing.
So I've got a couple of those

806
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,480
framed like in my hallway just
outside here.

807
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,760
And so my house is like, we have
sort of a, we joke the gallery

808
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,120
because I've probably got about
40 or 50 pieces up of original

809
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,080
artwork around the house, almost
all of them from books that I

810
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:40,720
wrote.
And so that's a pretty cool

811
00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:41,400
feeling.
I've got a.

812
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,280
That's amazing.
Yeah, the cover to the first

813
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,160
issue of Conan that I wrote for
Marvel.

814
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,120
It's an original oil painting
and that's in our living room.

815
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,440
And I joke with my wife, she was
like, really we're putting a

816
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:53,840
cone in painting up in the
living room.

817
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:55,320
I said, well, that helps pay the
mortgage.

818
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,080
So I feel like it deserves a
place of honor, like let's do

819
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,320
that.
So just kind of fun stuff like

820
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,760
that.
So I'm buying less of just like

821
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,640
random kind of pop culture stuff
for toys or things like that.

822
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,440
Usually it's I'm getting.
Whatever the new art book that a

823
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:12,800
friend of mine produced and he's
going to do a drawing in it for

824
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,800
me or I'm going to get a
original piece of artwork from a

825
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,800
thing that I grew up on or some
weird.

826
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,560
During the the lockdowns, I
bought a lot of old Dungeons and

827
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,520
Dragons books, like a like a lot
because that was sort of like my

828
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:27,640
my safe space.
Like I would retreat into those

829
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,440
old nostalgic books and a lot of
them I didn't own because my

830
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:34,400
older brother had them.
And so I was just buying stuff

831
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,200
to have it and to flip through
it and to not think about the

832
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:38,800
world as it was, you know what I
mean?

833
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:42,160
I do.
And so my Dungeons and Dragons

834
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,800
collection geometrically kind of
expanded over the course of

835
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:50,080
those whatever, 2 1/2 three
years, which was wild.

836
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:51,960
And now it's all reference
material.

837
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,720
When I work on D&D, you know
which is which is good, but

838
00:40:55,240 --> 00:40:57,480
probably not necessary.
But it was fun to have.

839
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,920
It's not about necessary.
It's art, first of all, it's

840
00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:00,840
art.
I collect art.

841
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:02,160
A lot of people will come into
my house.

842
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:03,760
They're like, you have so much
art.

843
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,160
I'm like, yeah, because I didn't
have kids till much later in my

844
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:10,000
life and I collected art.
And I like magical realism in

845
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,640
all things and all things I read
like it's my favorite.

846
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:14,560
So a lot of my art is that way
as well.

847
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,840
It's a little trippy.
Or for my now very teenage

848
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,160
daughter, there's a lot of
nudes, right?

849
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,680
Like there's bodies in my art
because it's art, right?

850
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:26,920
And like, before her friends
come, sometimes they're like, do

851
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:28,280
you want me to take that one
down?

852
00:41:28,720 --> 00:41:32,560
Because it's Nah.
She's like, used to it.

853
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,760
But like when she was middle
school, it was like, sure.

854
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,440
Yeah, that that age where it's
like, why is this exist?

855
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,000
Yeah, I remember one of my
buddies, I'd go to his place.

856
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:42,560
He doesn't have a lot of friends
over.

857
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:44,640
And he's given me the quick tour
of the house because I've never

858
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:46,920
been there before.
And I walk in and in the

859
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:51,840
bedroom, he's got, you know,
salacious photos taken of his

860
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,800
wife that they had, you know,
done a photo set and he forgot.

861
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,240
And he was just like, oh, shit,
you know, And I just laughed and

862
00:41:58,240 --> 00:42:00,320
we walked out or whatever.
And I said, dude, that's really

863
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:01,280
cool.
Like, I'm really.

864
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:02,720
And he goes, I'm kind of
embarrassed.

865
00:42:02,720 --> 00:42:05,080
I go, why?
Because because you love your

866
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,840
wife and you think she's hot.
Oh, no, the vapors.

867
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,480
Like what?
Oh my God the boot bond picture

868
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,120
got out.
I like that I.

869
00:42:14,240 --> 00:42:15,560
Think it's fun?
Whatever man.

870
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:19,960
Like, I think I love seeing
people's places because you want

871
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,480
to know what they prioritize or
what they find interesting or

872
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,600
what inspires them, you know,
particularly those places.

873
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,080
Like this is my office, so
obviously I've got reference

874
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:33,000
material all over the place,
just off camera shelves and

875
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,280
shelves of books and little
statues and all kinds of funky

876
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:38,200
things.
And sometimes you've got, I've

877
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:39,920
got a bulletin board here with
magnets.

878
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:44,080
So tons of reference material or
calendars or things I'm trying

879
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:45,840
to keep track of or whatever's
current.

880
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:50,600
But then there's just little, I
don't know, tchotchkes of of fun

881
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,120
things in each one of them, you
know, kind of provoke memories

882
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:54,920
which.
Is I don't I think your office

883
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,960
sounds 100% like my office.
I've got gobs of reference

884
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,760
material I have.
I'm a Halloween fan too so I

885
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,600
have like strange Halloween
things of more reference

886
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,240
materials.
Clubs Sophia I have.

887
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:10,400
I want to see the original
picture.

888
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,040
Well, I don't know that there's
a lot of photos.

889
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:14,960
We're talking about the early
90s, right?

890
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,520
So this is even pre digital
photography?

891
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:20,040
Well.
We're gonna, I'm gonna have to

892
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:21,440
find a way.
You might have to share that

893
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,880
like privately because that
would be so cool.

894
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:28,360
So we, we met in the early 90s
and we were in a larger friend

895
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:29,880
circle for years and years and
years.

896
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,480
But we never, you know, we're
close that way.

897
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:34,920
I moved away for several
different jobs.

898
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,200
I started as an artist in
animation, moved to Calgary,

899
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:42,280
then moved to Halifax, came back
to Toronto, had a really bad

900
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,840
breakup and was sort of like no
relationships, like got to

901
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,960
resettle my brain.
And for about 6 or seven months

902
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,600
was sort of, it was the first
time I had lived without a

903
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,480
roommate and without a a
significant other for the

904
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:58,440
entire, my entire adult life.
And that was a really weird kind

905
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:02,000
of a reset of like, who am I
without somebody and who am I

906
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,080
without even a roommate?
Like, how do I, how do I like my

907
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,240
own living space?
And who am I as a person?

908
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,640
And then a mutual friend of ours
who we've known for years was

909
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,360
like, I think you and Stacy
would make a great couple.

910
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:17,760
And I was like, you are nuts.
Like Stacy has never shown any

911
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,920
interest in me whatsoever.
And he was like, oh, so if she

912
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,160
did show interest, then that
would you would not be against

913
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:25,240
the idea.
And I was like, well, you're

914
00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:27,280
putting words in my mouth.
And then he just started pushing

915
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,720
from the other side.
And so Stacy and I started

916
00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:34,200
hanging out more, almost because
we were complaining about how

917
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,520
annoying he was getting trying
to get us together.

918
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:39,640
He was brilliant.
Who is this person?

919
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:43,520
He's brilliant.
Guy Parks and he ended up being

920
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:47,800
in her wedding party as her dude
of honor, you know, like, but

921
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:51,920
that was the whole thing was,
was like, yeah, he saw something

922
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:53,240
there.
He thought that we would, you

923
00:44:53,240 --> 00:44:55,440
know, really hit it off.
And we it's not, we didn't know

924
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:56,320
each other.
We totally did.

925
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,760
But we've never seen each other.
I guess that kind of a way.

926
00:44:59,240 --> 00:45:02,280
And over time, you know, the
conversations and getting closer

927
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,920
and then the next thing you
know, you're like, I feel

928
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,680
comfortable around this person
because they are into the things

929
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,120
I'm into.
You know, she's a big pop

930
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:11,800
culture person.
And we've got just a huge Venn

931
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,120
diagram that crosses over and
the things we like.

932
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:18,800
And then on top of that, just
they've known me all these

933
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,640
years.
So there's not this weird kind

934
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:26,320
of veneer of whatever, I don't
know, Jim's this writer guy or,

935
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,320
or in this world of pop culture
stuff.

936
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,840
It's not just Jim, you know.
And so it's been great.

937
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:36,400
It's been so wonderful.
We've we got married in 2010.

938
00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:39,440
And the crazy thing is I
launched Skull Kickers literally

939
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,120
a month after our wedding.
So I was doing the final

940
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:46,240
approvals on publishing for this
book while we were finalizing

941
00:45:46,240 --> 00:45:49,720
our wedding plans.
And if you can survive those two

942
00:45:49,720 --> 00:45:52,560
things at the same time, I
figure we're in it for the long

943
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,080
haul, you know, so.
I'm applauding.

944
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:58,280
I'm silent, applauding because
that's insanity.

945
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:02,440
And the pressure, pressure,
judgment, pressure.

946
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:03,680
Pleasing people.
How?

947
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,480
Wait, no, dude, my wedding was
50 people.

948
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:08,680
It was tiny.
No, we did.

949
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,200
We did a pretty big one.
And it was so funny because

950
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,600
everyone thought our wedding was
going to be nerdier than what it

951
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,160
was.
We didn't go really crazy on it.

952
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,760
And people are just sort of like
they're going to have just nerd

953
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:20,840
stuff everywhere.
And I was like, no, not really.

954
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:23,680
What's funny is she wanted it to
be more nerdy than I did.

955
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:25,520
And I was just sort of like, no,
I, you know.

956
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:27,800
All right, what was the biggest
nerd thing at the wedding?

957
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:29,400
Like I want to know how you
define.

958
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:32,920
It we had centerpieces that had
comic books in them, so you

959
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,440
could poke comic books out and
read them at the table if you.

960
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,080
Wanted which my wedding vows
included the word snarf.

961
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:41,720
OK, that's pretty good.
That's pretty nerdy.

962
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,880
Stacy's bouquet had a.
So in Dungeon Dragons, I don't

963
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:47,800
know if you've played D&D
before, there's the different

964
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:49,320
dice.
So there's AD 20.

965
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:52,240
So she had AD 20.
That was woven into her.

966
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:54,520
You know her.
Nice day.

967
00:46:54,840 --> 00:47:00,320
Because we met over gaming stuff
and so that, you know, there

968
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,320
were nerd bits if you knew where
to look for it or whatever.

969
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:08,920
When I got up to do my speech at
the reception, I did do a Conan

970
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:10,960
reference, which is funny
because I hadn't written Conan

971
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:13,240
at that point.
But I said to people, I said,

972
00:47:13,240 --> 00:47:15,600
now all of you think, you know,
what is best in life.

973
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,440
And there's that famous goes
what is best in life.

974
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,040
And I said, actually, this is
what's best in life with all of

975
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,920
you, friends and family, you
know, on the most special night

976
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:24,160
of our life and all that kind of
stuff.

977
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:27,800
So it's funny that the, the
ripples of Conan, you know, have

978
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,280
sort of worked their way into my
life now more and more.

979
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:33,640
It feels like every year.
But but it was always there, You

980
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,160
know, it was always part and
parcel of this thing.

981
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:40,280
But and, and like any
relationship, you go through ups

982
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:43,880
and downs and, and figuring out
where your priorities are and,

983
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,600
and this journey that we're on.
It's so funny.

984
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:50,160
Stacey reminds me, I didn't ask
her to marry me when I proposed

985
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:51,320
to her.
I said, do you want to go on the

986
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:54,280
adventure of a lifetime?
And she said yes.

987
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,840
And so every so often when we're
having, you know, difficult

988
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,600
times, she goes, well, you did
promise me an adventure, you

989
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:04,680
know, like, so or we're in the
middle of travel and things are

990
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,080
all screwed up and we're trapped
in an airport and she just looks

991
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,120
at me and she'll just pause and
she'll go adventure, you know,

992
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:13,480
like, and we laugh about it
because it's, you know, when

993
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,640
things are hard, we we band
together.

994
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,600
One of the first conventions
that we did after the pandemic,

995
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,800
real, you know, when people are
starting to go back out.

996
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,720
We got Covad at a convention and
we couldn't fly home.

997
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:30,560
So we had to rent a car and
drive from Calgary to Toronto.

998
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:36,320
And that is it was a total of 40
hours driving.

999
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:41,240
No, no, I would have sat
somewhere and waited to get

1000
00:48:41,240 --> 00:48:44,440
better.
We had to get home and so 40

1001
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:48,920
hours, four days on the road and
of course we have COVID so we

1002
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,360
have to go through, drive
through with a mask on and tell

1003
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:53,440
everyone and they're bringing
stuff out to the car and

1004
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,880
dropping food off.
We stayed in roadside motels and

1005
00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:00,000
we told them and they put us in
the furthest hotel possible.

1006
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,800
And then in the morning we would
leave all the windows and door

1007
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,160
open to air it out and we would
get on the road again.

1008
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,680
And after one day of driving,
Stacy got very sick.

1009
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:11,160
So then it was just me driving
and she was just in the

1010
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:15,400
passenger side hacking and
falling asleep and, you know,

1011
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,240
terrible fever.
And I'm thinking to myself, we

1012
00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:20,240
just got to get home.
We got to do this.

1013
00:49:20,240 --> 00:49:24,360
And it was some of the best
conversation we've had in years.

1014
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,240
And it was like, I told
everyone, all my editors,

1015
00:49:27,240 --> 00:49:30,480
everyone I was working with, I'm
driving, I got to get home, I'm

1016
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:32,360
sick.
And everyone left us alone.

1017
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:35,480
Literally my inbox except for
good luck and we're thinking of

1018
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,280
you messages.
It was just quiet.

1019
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:41,440
It was just the two of us.
And it was like we banded back

1020
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,200
together and just were like, we
got to do this.

1021
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,920
We got to get through this.
And we did, of course.

1022
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,200
And in some ways we're closer
than ever for it that we know

1023
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:52,280
that when the chips are down,
it's like, all right, it's you

1024
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:54,440
and me against the world, babe.
Like, let's go, you know?

1025
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:59,320
And that's something I take a
lot of strength from the fact

1026
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:04,040
that, you know, whatever the
highs and lows are, when when

1027
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:06,720
it's needed, we know.
We know what matters.

1028
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,000
Yeah, I love it.
So it still goes to your sense

1029
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:14,400
of character and kindness and
what I said to you, that you're

1030
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:18,480
you're just kind.
You're just, you're, you're a

1031
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:19,760
you know what?
You're a good man.

1032
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:22,640
You're you're a mess.
Save all my sarcasm and snark

1033
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,960
for.
No, you can always bring that

1034
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,320
because I I think that's the the
interesting dichotomy.

1035
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:32,880
I am like, I often cry while I'm
talking to people because they

1036
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:36,960
touch my heart, right.
I have this beautiful veneer of

1037
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:40,760
sarcasm because sure it is.
I think in my deflection and

1038
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,600
whatever, but anytime you want
to be sarcastic, we don't have

1039
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:47,320
to record it, but whatever.
I know what's funny is when I

1040
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:49,920
when I get injured or when
something is really going wrong.

1041
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,600
Stacey knows it can be this
weird thing 'cause I'll, I'll

1042
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:55,640
respond with sarcasm.
So if something doesn't go the

1043
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:59,640
way I want or things are falling
apart, whatever on a project or

1044
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:02,800
in travel or anything else, I'll
get very snarky and sarcastic

1045
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,640
And she starts laughing and
she's like, I'm, I'm not

1046
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,440
laughing at the situation.
I'm just laughing at your

1047
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:12,760
ability to turn it into this
like really hilarious thing.

1048
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:14,800
And I'm like, it's my defensive
mechanism.

1049
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:16,520
Like that's the only way I can
get through this.

1050
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,640
And she knows if we go past the
point of snark, if I start

1051
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:22,960
getting genuinely angry, she's
like, OK, now it's bad.

1052
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:26,320
Now we're in a real bad spot.
You know, if I had, I had a

1053
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:30,800
really bad back injury and I was
laid up for days at a time and,

1054
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:33,880
you know, literally need help
going to the washroom and things

1055
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:36,480
like that.
And the first day of it, I was

1056
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,480
hilarious.
I was trying to describe the

1057
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:42,080
amount of pain I was in and I
was just like, I, I didn't think

1058
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:46,000
I was a religious person, but
now I can scream for God like no

1059
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,160
one else, like with heartfelt
abandoned.

1060
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,360
I'm praying for the God because
I'm in so much pain.

1061
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,600
She's laughing and laughing, you
know, like I'm literally

1062
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:57,000
straining over the toilet and
I'm trying to describe to her

1063
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,240
the colors that I'm getting
coming through my brain because

1064
00:51:59,240 --> 00:52:01,680
I'm in so much pain.
And she's trying not to laugh.

1065
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:03,800
Because it's the most
embarrassing moments of your

1066
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:06,720
life that you can't, you know,
whatever, take a dump.

1067
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:11,320
And two days later, the humor
left me because I was like,

1068
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:13,440
maybe this is the new normal for
the rest of my life.

1069
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:16,360
And then it just sort of like
dawned on me like, oh, I'm

1070
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:19,240
doomed.
And she was like, that was that

1071
00:52:19,240 --> 00:52:21,280
was hard.
When you're laughing, I feel

1072
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:23,720
like we can get through it.
But when the darkness sort of

1073
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:26,920
washed over you, I thought, uh
oh, what?

1074
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,440
Now you know.
And so it's fascinating to sort

1075
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:31,480
of realize those things about
yourself.

1076
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,560
I have had many back problems
and know a lot of pain so next

1077
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:37,640
time just DM me.
I'll be like you need to do this

1078
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:39,800
this this and this.
This will help you in the

1079
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:44,240
bathroom and do this.
I did physio afterwards and that

1080
00:52:44,240 --> 00:52:46,800
changed the way I move and it
changed, you know, now doing

1081
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:50,080
weekly exercising and stretching
and I haven't thrown my back out

1082
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,280
since then.
So that was 2018 was the last

1083
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:56,080
time that I was laid up.
And it's like I'm very thankful.

1084
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:59,160
Humbling.
Yeah, and now at a convention

1085
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,280
when things are really crazy,
when you're running around and

1086
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:03,960
you're staying out late, you're
waking up early, there's moments

1087
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:06,440
where I can feel the muscles in
my back starting to sort of

1088
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:08,640
shake.
And I go, OK, got to be careful.

1089
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:10,120
Here's what we're going to do.
We're going to do the little

1090
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:11,920
stretching regiment and we're
going to do this and we're going

1091
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:13,520
to do this.
Sometimes I'm doing a signing

1092
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:15,600
and suddenly I'm just standing
and people are like, oh, you're

1093
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:17,040
standing.
And I'm like, Yep, just going to

1094
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,920
stand for the next 40 minutes
because sitting too long.

1095
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:21,480
And do you have your own cushion
going?

1096
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:23,920
To go behind this banner, yeah,
yeah, I've got all this stuff,

1097
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:25,240
but even still, you're just
straining it.

1098
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:27,480
I'm like, I'm just going to go
behind this banner with my name.

1099
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,600
I'm going to do some weird
pressing against the wall and

1100
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:32,240
things.
Don't fret, you know, we're all

1101
00:53:32,240 --> 00:53:35,760
good and you sort of feel the
old man energy, but whatever.

1102
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:39,080
The good thing is, I'm not.
I don't have a I'm not afraid of

1103
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:40,800
embarrassing myself kind of
anymore.

1104
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:43,520
In that broader sense.
I I I've been to enough

1105
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,000
conventions.
If you go to your first show or

1106
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:47,560
you feel like, man, I really
want to be part of this

1107
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:49,160
industry.
Of course you're terrified.

1108
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:51,360
What is the first impression I'm
going to make and what are

1109
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:53,760
people going to think of me and
am IA professional and do they

1110
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:56,040
give a damn?
And now I'm just sort of like,

1111
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:58,600
all right, here we go again.
We're going to San Diego and

1112
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,760
we're going to do the thing and
I'm going to have a lot of fun.

1113
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,280
And sometimes I'm going to feel
like garbage because I'm going

1114
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:07,040
to get rain checked on another
meeting or someone's going to

1115
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:10,520
make it clearly obvious at a
party that I'm not a priority as

1116
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:13,160
they look over my shoulder at
someone more important and they

1117
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:15,160
just sort of shove me out of the
way or whatever.

1118
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:17,560
And you just go, all right,
we're at that part of the

1119
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:18,760
evening.
Here's what we're doing.

1120
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:21,000
I'm going to go find the people
who like me and we'll.

1121
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:25,680
Just exactly, yeah.
Because I've done it enough that

1122
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:31,240
I know over aggregate this one
bad moment is not the end of the

1123
00:54:31,240 --> 00:54:34,160
story.
But you can see why people early

1124
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:36,080
on in their careers, it's the
same feeling.

1125
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:39,400
Like people ask me if I get
writer's block and I say yeah,

1126
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:40,920
all the time.
And they go, but what do you do

1127
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:42,440
about it?
I go, well, the difference is

1128
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:44,720
because I have a shelf full of
books that I finished.

1129
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:48,360
I look and I go shit.
This is the part where I feel

1130
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:51,400
like I can't do it.
Instead of I can't do it, I go.

1131
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:53,720
This is the part where it tricks
me into thinking I can't do it

1132
00:54:53,720 --> 00:54:55,840
again.
Thought I escaped him but he

1133
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:59,240
came back again to get me.
Now he's there, that little

1134
00:54:59,240 --> 00:55:00,640
bugger.
It's always there.

1135
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:03,360
Whatever the imposter syndrome,
whatever you call it.

1136
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:07,320
And so now I look at it and I
go, oh, welcome back, old

1137
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:09,480
friend, you piece of garbage.
We're going to, we're going to

1138
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:13,800
defeat you because I have.
But if you've never done it, if

1139
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:16,440
you've never gone through that
before, or it's very early in

1140
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:19,240
your career and you get a real
severe case of it, I can

1141
00:55:19,240 --> 00:55:22,360
understand the feeling where you
go, well, a real artist doesn't

1142
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:25,000
feel that way.
A real writer wouldn't have such

1143
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:27,480
doubts.
Therefore I must not be one.

1144
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:32,120
Therefore I must stop.
And so that's the real danger,

1145
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:35,640
is if you're early on in that
process and you get that clutch

1146
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:39,600
of fear and it forces you away
from it completely.

1147
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:42,760
And then you just say, well, I
guess I wasn't meant to be

1148
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:45,520
because I don't have the muses
kissing my fingertips or

1149
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:47,360
whatever.
Or that bad critique, right?

1150
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:50,120
There's always someone, there's
always that one bad review.

1151
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:53,800
Or if you're in a critique group
getting feedback, there's always

1152
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:57,560
one a hole in the group, right?
Like there's and it's either

1153
00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:00,560
it's because they don't like
their work or they just want to

1154
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:02,600
show off what they know or be
better.

1155
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:06,200
It's for a myriad reason.
And the other, the other side of

1156
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,720
the coin, I know, and this is AI
would not do this personally,

1157
00:56:09,720 --> 00:56:13,040
but I know there's some people
that like, it's that weird

1158
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:18,000
mental thing of you need to
build up a sense of, of callous,

1159
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:20,880
you know, that, that you have to
be able to take a critique,

1160
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:22,720
otherwise you're not going to
survive in this industry.

1161
00:56:22,720 --> 00:56:25,160
So I know there's some people
they'll give a just an eye

1162
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:28,040
wateringly brutal critique.
And it's sort of like, well, if

1163
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:31,120
you, if that's enough to make
you quit, then you never would

1164
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:33,400
have made it anyways.
And I don't prescribe to that

1165
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:40,800
per SE, but I can see I get it
in the broader sense of you are

1166
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:43,600
going to get rejected, you are
going to fail, you are going to

1167
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:45,600
be told you're not meant to be
here.

1168
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:49,720
And part of the job has to be
staying in the game, staying in

1169
00:56:49,720 --> 00:56:51,880
publishing.
The highs and lows are going to

1170
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:54,720
get you, you know, like right
now I'm riding a really cool

1171
00:56:54,720 --> 00:56:57,880
high.
And what's nice about it is it's

1172
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:03,640
a sustained series of output
that is going to hopefully be

1173
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:06,000
well regarded long into the
future.

1174
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:09,520
And I will be able to that's
another sort of, you know, floor

1175
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:11,920
and whatever the big building of
your career.

1176
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:16,160
But there will be bad ones.
There will be really bad years

1177
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:19,320
and there have been lean years
and crappy years and and you

1178
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:20,600
know, it's.
The ride.

1179
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,320
It's the ride.
And if you realize staying on

1180
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:29,200
the ride is is half of it, you
know, and then celebrating and

1181
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:32,640
enjoying it when it's going well
and railing against it and

1182
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:37,800
trying not to let it, you know,
freeze your heart when it's

1183
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:40,480
going poorly, then you will be
OK.

1184
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:43,680
You know, you may not ever get
the success that you feel you

1185
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:46,560
deserve or get to work on the
properties that you think you'd

1186
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:50,960
be perfect for, but that's not
actually like I never you told

1187
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:53,400
me, what do you want to do?
Growing up, I would not have

1188
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:55,680
said write comic books.
I would have not have said write

1189
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:57,640
Conan and Dungeons and Dragons
and The Avengers.

1190
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:00,960
Even collecting growing up,
Avengers wasn't one of my

1191
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:03,480
favorite comics.
And yet when I got to work on

1192
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:08,160
it, I saw patterns and things
that were such a good fit for my

1193
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:11,000
headspace.
And the way that I wrote, you

1194
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:13,800
know, a bunch of the characters
I love, I have not had a chance

1195
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:16,760
to write regularly.
You know, they'll do little pop

1196
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:19,920
up here and there, but like I, I
as a kid, I collected Spider Man

1197
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:23,040
and Doctor Strange and neither
of those characters I've had a

1198
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:25,680
chance to do a long run on and I
may never.

1199
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:30,800
And it can't be you can't set
your your creative goals around

1200
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:35,440
if I don't get to do X, then I'm
a failure because so many of

1201
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:37,120
those decisions are out of your
hands.

1202
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:40,400
When I was in school for art and
animation, I wanted to work on a

1203
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:43,960
Disney feature animated film.
I wanted to, I was, I just

1204
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:45,760
taught traditional hand drawn
information.

1205
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:47,480
So flip the papers and all that
stuff.

1206
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:51,040
By the time I finished school,
Disney had gotten rid of their

1207
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:54,920
traditional animation division.
Well, guess what, your dream.

1208
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:57,280
It's like if someone said I want
to be an astronaut and then they

1209
00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,840
told you bad news kid, they
cancelled NASA.

1210
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:03,360
You're like, oh, I guess you
don't get to be an astronaut.

1211
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:06,160
Like I guess you don't get to do
so now what?

1212
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:09,160
And in some ways it was, of
course, in the rearview mirror.

1213
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:12,560
It was the right lesson because
it taught me that what I really

1214
00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:15,720
wanted was I wanted the feeling
that I felt like the people who

1215
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:18,280
worked at Disney had, that they
got to be part of a large

1216
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:21,000
creative project.
They got to collaborate, they

1217
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:24,080
got to make art, they got to
tell stories, and they got to do

1218
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:27,000
it together.
That was those were the traits

1219
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:29,360
that made me want to be a Disney
animator.

1220
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:32,160
But I thought it was getting to
Disney was the goal.

1221
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:35,240
Actually, I know a lot of people
who work at Disney and it's not

1222
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:36,120
a nice place to.
Work.

1223
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:38,920
Of course not.
So I'm so glad that you actually

1224
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:42,000
created your world.
You keep doing it.

1225
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,240
The same thing with Marvel or
any of these other giant

1226
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:46,240
corporations.
You work with people and

1227
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:48,480
depending on what division
you're in and depending on who

1228
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:50,560
your supervisors are and
depending on who your

1229
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:53,200
collaborators are, that can be
an amazing or that can be a

1230
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:57,440
terrible experience at the same
company on different projects.

1231
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:01,600
And so it wasn't about it was
Disney the idyllic concept

1232
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:04,160
rather than Disney the reality,
you know what I mean?

1233
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:07,840
And the same thing with when I
get to work for Marvel or or

1234
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:10,440
work on Dungeons and Dragons.
Sometimes it's amazing and

1235
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:14,680
sometimes it's very stressful
and difficult and you sort these

1236
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:19,840
companies know that you.
Are a giant fanboy and that you

1237
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:22,640
would roll through broken glass
to work for them and so they

1238
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:25,760
don't have to be nice and they
don't have to be good.

1239
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:28,920
Now individuals within that
company can be good and they can

1240
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:31,840
be nice and they can be
magnanimous and treat you

1241
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:35,840
properly and respectful and all
those things, but it's not

1242
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:37,040
assumed you.
Know.

1243
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:40,800
And so that's the real, those
are the lessons that I've kind

1244
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:43,120
of had over the years.
So when someone comes to me and

1245
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:45,720
they say I want to whatever, I
want to do what you're doing.

1246
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:48,720
And I go, cool, what, what do
you envision that is?

1247
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:50,440
And they say, I want to write
Conan.

1248
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:52,800
I go, well, I'm here right now.
Unfortunately, you know, and I'm

1249
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:53,960
going to be doing this for a
while.

1250
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:58,280
So I'd like to keep this seat
and don't look at me that way.

1251
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:01,520
You know, like, like, but, but
on the other hand, if they say

1252
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:04,520
to me, I want to write stories,
of course I want to empower you

1253
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:06,640
to do that.
And, and what may have you or,

1254
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:09,440
you know, if they say, but if
they say whatever, I, if I don't

1255
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:11,600
get a chance to write Wolverine,
then I'm a failure.

1256
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:13,560
You're like, you do not get to
choose that.

1257
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:18,160
The editor of Wolverine and the
Marvel Comics Publishing, you

1258
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:21,120
know, get to decide that.
And you want to make a character

1259
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:23,640
that makes you feel like how you
felt when you discovered

1260
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:25,680
Wolverine.
That's the goal.

1261
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:27,880
That's the really good thing
that you should do.

1262
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:31,960
What is it about those stories?
It's so funny when you say all

1263
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:34,600
these characters like I have all
these memories of, oh, when I

1264
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:36,760
discovered Wolverine and I
always loved Gambit.

1265
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:38,920
I just don't know why Gambit
didn't get a whole lot more

1266
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:40,920
attention or well.
He's still around.

1267
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:43,200
He's, I know.
X-Men lineup and he's quite a

1268
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:44,600
cool character.
He's being written by a friend

1269
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:46,040
of mine, GAIL Simone, and.
She's doing an.

1270
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:49,360
Amazing job.
See, but like, those are all my,

1271
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:51,720
those are my not.
I wasn't a kid.

1272
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:54,120
I was, yeah, I was like more my
thing.

1273
01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:57,080
Or I was all Gamora, like I was
for her for Halloween.

1274
01:01:57,080 --> 01:02:01,560
And being green, by the way,
takes days to come off of your

1275
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:04,280
skin.
Anytime these cosplayers, I see

1276
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:07,200
the orange or the green or the
blue skin and I'm just like

1277
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:10,520
commitment.
I know was the worst is like I

1278
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:13,480
was having a party and
everyone's like, who are you?

1279
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:18,040
I'm like Gamora, like what I
well, Gamora or I did Penny

1280
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:19,440
Dreadful.
They're like, who is that?

1281
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:22,920
I'm like penny dreadful.
So like, I'm just saying, I need

1282
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:24,800
more of my, my people.
You call them nerds.

1283
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:28,680
I don't care whatever you are
because I got my, I tell you all

1284
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:30,600
my Funko bots.
Don't even get me started about

1285
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:32,200
Star Trek because I'm all about
that too.

1286
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:34,440
But I want to thank you for your
time.

1287
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:36,640
We've been talking a long time,
so I don't want to take up more

1288
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:39,040
of your day.
And I keep saying you're really

1289
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:42,600
kind, but I wrap up every
episode with the question.

1290
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:45,720
If you came with a warning
label, what would it be?

1291
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:51,960
So what's your warning label?
So my warning label is probably

1292
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:57,480
hot surface do not touch.
So I am very warm as a person.

1293
01:02:57,480 --> 01:03:00,880
Like genuinely warm.
Like if you hug me, I'm probably

1294
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:03,840
warm too warm.
And in the summertime it's way

1295
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:06,520
way way worse.
So when I go to sleep at night,

1296
01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:10,120
usually my wife just kicks me
away 'cause I'm radiating heat

1297
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:13,920
like I'm like an engine.
During the winter, I'm your best

1298
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:15,560
friend.
I'm the one you want to keep

1299
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:18,760
around.
So she just clings on to me and

1300
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:21,680
just, you know, for warmth
during the winter months here in

1301
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:24,080
Canada.
But during the summer, steer

1302
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:27,160
clear.
I'm a warm, warm individual.

1303
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:30,080
I love that.
I'm like, I didn't see that one

1304
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:32,240
coming.
I actually love that.

1305
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:34,680
My husband asked me.
He got sick last week.

1306
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:36,480
He's like, oh, can you tell if I
have a fever?

1307
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:39,320
And I touched him, He's like
bitch because I was on fire.

1308
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:42,640
Like I run hot too because
energetically I feel I'm just

1309
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:45,640
like he's like go away.
And I was like, it was just

1310
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:47,920
funny.
No, it's pretty great.

1311
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:49,520
So it's Stacy's the sort of
opposite.

1312
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:53,240
She's got a real, she's
genuinely cold most of the time,

1313
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:56,000
so during the summer it's still
too much, but every soap she

1314
01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:57,240
just comes over, puts her hands
on me.

1315
01:03:57,240 --> 01:03:59,080
Like where were you?
It's like you feel like you had

1316
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:01,640
your hands in the fridge.
So we're a good combo.

1317
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:03,760
Ying Yang.
And out temperatures, yeah, it's

1318
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:04,520
nice.
I love that.

1319
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:08,520
So where can people find you or
meet you or connect?

1320
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:11,560
All my stuff, I've had my own
website for over 20 years, so

1321
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:17,360
jimzub.com, so JIMZ ub.com.
That's got all my social media.

1322
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:20,280
That's got my entire
bibliography of books I've

1323
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:22,720
written.
That's my whole career, all my

1324
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:24,520
contact info, all my social
media.

1325
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:27,520
You can sign up for my
newsletter, which is a weekly

1326
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:28,680
the.
Yep, I have it.

1327
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:29,640
I still get it.
Great.

1328
01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:33,360
Thank you.
And then the other thing that's

1329
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:35,560
on there is I've also got a
bunch of tutorials.

1330
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:37,600
So if you check the right hand
column, there's something called

1331
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:40,400
Comic School that I put together
with a series of friends of

1332
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:42,240
mine.
So I've got over 40 free

1333
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:44,800
articles all about what it's
like to work in comic books, how

1334
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:47,800
to break in, how to work with a
publisher, what a writer does,

1335
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:51,360
how you market your work,
misgivings that people have

1336
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:53,600
about the publishing industry,
what they think it's like versus

1337
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:56,400
what it's really like.
And those articles have been

1338
01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:59,800
around for very relevant when I
look at the stats, those are

1339
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:01,440
still the biggest traffic on my
site.

1340
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:04,680
And some of my first work in the
industry with bigger publishers

1341
01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:08,000
came because I had editors
contact me and they said, I keep

1342
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:10,040
sending people to your website
for advice.

1343
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:13,080
I should probably hire you, the
guy that's giving them the

1344
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:14,360
advice.
And I thought that was really

1345
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:17,200
sweet.
And so those are just free

1346
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:19,360
resources that people can dig
into.

1347
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:22,000
And if you want to support me
more directly, obviously buy a

1348
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:25,920
book, subscribe to a current
comic that I'm writing, or on

1349
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:29,080
Patreon.
I have an archive of over 300

1350
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:32,200
scripts that I've written for
the price of a coffee.

1351
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:35,680
You can dig through my archives
and you can compare what I wrote

1352
01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:38,520
to the original pitch that I
gave the publisher, how it

1353
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:42,720
evolved over multiple drafts,
notes that I sent over to the

1354
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:46,440
artist, just so you really,
really get a sense of how the

1355
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:49,320
kind of engine starts and then
what we end up with on the

1356
01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:51,680
publishing end.
So let's see, again, you're kind

1357
01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:53,240
and generous and you're sub
stack.

1358
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:53,920
I have that.
Too.

1359
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:56,840
So I'm just like, I know, I bet
you didn't know I was still

1360
01:05:56,840 --> 01:05:59,120
doing all that, did you?
It's like I'm a little creeper

1361
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:00,800
back there.
I'm just, I'm just supporting

1362
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:02,360
you from the back.
It's all good.

1363
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:04,160
It's all good.
So it could be funny.

1364
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:05,760
I come to conventions and I
don't always.

1365
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:08,680
Know if people are reading, you
know, the newsletter, so someone

1366
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:11,360
will reference something I just
wrote, or sometimes months ago I

1367
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:15,320
wrote, or I'll put recipes.
Over the pandemic, I learned how

1368
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:17,200
to cook tons of things.
That was one of those sort of

1369
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:18,760
joys.
So I'll put recipes and people

1370
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:21,520
come to me and they'll literally
show me photos of dishes they've

1371
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:23,880
made that I put in the
newsletter or whatever, which is

1372
01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:25,960
really sweet.
Or I had one guy come to me at a

1373
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:27,320
signing and he got a bunch of
Conan.

1374
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:30,480
And he says, this is going to
sound kind of awkward, but like,

1375
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:33,680
I started with the food.
I really liked your food photos.

1376
01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:36,240
And then I realized I might want
to read comic books because I

1377
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:39,080
used to read them in high school
and now I'm kind of addicted

1378
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:40,600
again.
And so I was sort of laughing

1379
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:43,720
that I brought him in with these
recipes and then got him into

1380
01:06:43,720 --> 01:06:45,400
comic.
It was a gateway drug.

1381
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:48,440
It was a sourdough bread.
It started with a sourdough

1382
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:52,400
bread.
Whatever gets you to the power,

1383
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:55,280
I don't care.
As long as you're here so well,

1384
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:57,720
everyone, thank you so much for
listening to the Holly Hughes

1385
01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:00,440
Podcast.
If you want to get a hold of Jim

1386
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:02,960
or watch or follow, of course
his links are included.

1387
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:05,800
I was like, I want to ask people
to leave comments.

1388
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:10,080
So I want to know what your what
was the first comic or like what

1389
01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:14,240
character was the thing that got
you into comics, right?

1390
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:16,400
Because like I just said, like
mine was Archie, but that was

1391
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:18,120
never my favorite.
I just couldn't get past

1392
01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:21,840
Veronica honestly, but I'm
curious.

1393
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:24,000
This is the.
Classic the most.

1394
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:26,280
Classic nerd answer.
But it's true, I started

1395
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:28,600
collecting.
I, I read comic books.

1396
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:31,200
I think the first comic I
started collecting was GI Joe

1397
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:32,880
because I had the toys when I
was younger.

1398
01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:34,840
Oh yeah.
But then, but then Spider Man

1399
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:37,200
really clicked with me.
So he was my first boyfriend in

1400
01:07:37,200 --> 01:07:39,360
my head.
Spider Man, by the way, I don't.

1401
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:42,800
Know fucker man, he's he's, you
know that that mixture of like.

1402
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:45,720
Accessibility and
responsibility, like everyone

1403
01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:49,120
feels like they see themselves
within him and the hidden power

1404
01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:50,760
that no one knows that you
really have.

1405
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:53,240
And all the way to the world
crushing down on you.

1406
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:55,720
Are you just doing my
psychological breakdown over my

1407
01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:57,640
first animated?
Crush, obviously.

1408
01:07:57,760 --> 01:07:59,960
I think it's channel 11 in New
York.

1409
01:07:59,960 --> 01:08:02,520
After school I was like Peter
pose like Spider Man.

1410
01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:04,040
I was like, I got to go to
Spider Man.

1411
01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:05,600
Look, I'm even turning the
channel.

1412
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:08,120
That's how old the TV's are.
Oh yeah, totally.

1413
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:10,560
I try and describe some of those
things to my students.

1414
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:13,200
Over the years I would you would
realize you were falling down a

1415
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:14,800
hole as you'd make some weird
reference.

1416
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:18,200
There was I was talking to
someone about, you know, static

1417
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:20,560
before the channel started up.
And they were like, what are you

1418
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:22,880
talking about?
I go, well, T VS not 24 hours

1419
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:26,120
When I was a kid, it would start
at like 5:00 AM and then it

1420
01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:28,760
would stop around midnight or
1:00 AM depending on the

1421
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:30,319
channel.
And they just thought I was

1422
01:08:30,319 --> 01:08:32,439
crazy.
What do you mean there's no

1423
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:34,000
television?
I was like, there's you turn on,

1424
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:37,160
there's just static, just snow.
And then they were like, that's

1425
01:08:37,160 --> 01:08:39,200
where static comes from.
I'm like, well, that's not where

1426
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:40,960
it comes from.
It's because there's no signal

1427
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:44,319
And you're trying to explain
this esoteric weird part of

1428
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:46,680
growing up that makes no sense
to.

1429
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:48,800
You can probably just Google it
and be like, this is what it

1430
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:49,399
looks like.
This.

1431
01:08:49,399 --> 01:08:51,439
This is what?
There was some list that went

1432
01:08:51,439 --> 01:08:53,720
around and it was sort of like,
have you ever?

1433
01:08:53,720 --> 01:08:56,640
And it was for like. 20 year
olds and there was like 40

1434
01:08:56,640 --> 01:08:59,000
things that you've done and
there were things like played a

1435
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:03,080
cassette or like dumb stuff like
that.

1436
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:06,240
And I literally all 40 of them
because they were just my youth.

1437
01:09:06,319 --> 01:09:08,760
They were just, you know, the
things that we grew up with.

1438
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:11,359
And some of them were even newer
where they were like, you know,

1439
01:09:12,279 --> 01:09:13,960
used a phone line for the
Internet.

1440
01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:16,319
I'm like, I'm already in my 20s
by that point.

1441
01:09:16,319 --> 01:09:20,200
What are you talking about?
You the sound, the sound of

1442
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:20,880
dialogue.
That's.

1443
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:24,520
Right.
Anyway, thanks again for coming.

1444
01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:25,399
Thank you.
Thank you.